I understand has passed the House, carries a supplemental appropriation for The National Archives. That was requested primarily to care for the great increase in the activities of The National Archives resulting from the defense program; increases in transfers of records to The National Archives largely occasioned by the demand for space by the agencies that previously have held those records; records that would have been transferred, perhaps, in the course of time, but that the agencies would not have gotten around to transfer, possibly, for 5 or 10 years had it not been for their pressure for space; increase in the disposal of records because agencies now realize that they can get rid of large quantities of useless records in their custody and thereby again make additional space available for other uses.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. They would not send useless papers to Archives, would they?

Dr. Buck. No. But they are required by law to report papers that they propose to dispose of to the Archivist, and the Archivist has to have an examination made of them and report to Congress whether or not he finds them to have any administrative or research value. Mr. FITZPATRICK. And then where would you put them in a warehouse, or something?

Dr. BUCK. No. If the congressional committee that deals with such matters accepts the report of the Archivist in the matter, then the agencies are allowed to destroy those papers. In the past, some of them have been burned; today I think they are stopping burning them and are disposing of them as waste paper. And, in the past, many of them have also been disposed of as waste paper.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Might it be that some of them it would be well to put in some warehouse for future reference?

Dr. BUCK. Papers that are proposed for disposal are all very carefully examined by deputies of the Archivist and, if it appears there is any chance they will have any administrative or research value in the future, the Archivist does not recommend them to be disposed of, and then the agency has to make some provision to take care of them. Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you take care of them by putting them all in Archives, or are some of them taken care of outside?

Dr. Buck. If we find they are likely to be of permanent value, they would probably be transferred to The National Archives. If, however, they are of a sort that ought to be preserved for some 5 or 10 years, because of some possible legal complications, then the Archivist would refuse to accession them and the agency would continue to have custody of them, but might put them in dead storage.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Would you make such a recommendation to put them into dead storage after looking them over?

Dr. BUCK. We have no authority to make any such recomendation. We might give unofficial advice to the agency, but, by law, the Archivist has no authority in that matter.

Mr. WOODRUM. When you refuse to certify them for destruction or disposition, then the agency has no other alternative except to keep them unless you can take them in at Archives?

Dr. BUCK. They have either to keep them or to transfer them to National Archives-one or the other-in that case.

INCREASE IN WORK DUE TO NATIONAL-DEFENSE PROGRAM

In the third place, the supplemental appropriation was asked for because of the great increase in demand for services of the National Archives. These increases in services are occasioned by the defense program in two ways; in one way, demands for servicing of the vast quantity of World War records and N. R. A. records, and similar records in National Archives that the other defense agencies of the Government find contain important information that they want and need.

Mr. WOODRUM. What do you mean by the servicing of those records; amplify that a little bit.

Dr. Buck. Making documents available to representatives of those agencies who come to the building; giving them information from documents over the telephone or by mail; in some cases compiling a list of certain documents in certain files that relates to certain subjects for the use of defense agencies.

For a considerable period of time now from three to five professional experts of the staff have devoted practically all their time to the servicing of records in one of these ways to the Office of Production Management and related defense agencies.

Mr. WOODRUM. I imagine your N. R. A. records would be very interesting to the Office of Production Management and probably to the Office of Price Control and some of those agencies.

Dr. Buck. They are very interesting and very valuable. They are, in some respects, more valuable than the War Industries Board's records, because they reflect a later economic and industrial situation. in this country and one that is closer to what we have now than was the situation at the time of the World War. Yes; they are very extensively used.

Then, in the second place, the requests for services have greatly increased as the result of the transfers of old records to The National Archives, such, for example, as the great bulk of Land Office records down to 1908. We cannot say that the services on those records are directly defense services, but those records were transferred to us primarily to make space for defense activities and, having the records in our custody, we have to render services on them.

Now, the present budget, as has been brought out, does not provide for any more than is necessary to carry on at the same level that we will be carrying on during the remainder of this fiscal year, if the Third Supplemental Appropriation Act is passed with the provision in it for the National Archives.

The National Archives was recognized some few months ago by the Civil Service Commission as one of the defense agencies of the Government, because of the servicing in connection with defense that we are rendering to other agencies of the Government. In view of that fact and of the pressure for such defense activities, we have already curtailed as much as seems to be possible the nondefense related work of The National Archives. We have a great deal of arrangement and description work that ought to be done on the older bodies of records in order to make them more available for use by the Government or by scholars who want to use them, but we are keeping that work down to the minimum in order to put all of our ergies on arranging, organizing and servicing defense-related mate

rial and, of course, carrying out activities in connection with the transfer of records and the disposal of records.

REIMBURSEMENTS FOR LOAN OF PERSONNEL AND WORK PERFORMED

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you get any refunds from any of these defense agencies for the work you are doing for them?

Mr. Buck. No; not as a rule; not for services. We have occasionally loaned members of our staff, I believe, to defense agencies on a reimbursable basis, when we had experts that they wanted to help them with their records' problems, or other problems. And in the case of some of the transfers of large bodies of records from other agencies, arrangements have been made for either the transfer of personnel ot the transfer of funds from those agencies to enable us to provide the necessary personnel to the end of the fiscal year in which the transfer occurred.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Could you tell the committee how much of a refund you have received up to the present time?

Dr. Buck. I should have to leave that, I think, to Mr. Harris, to answer. I have not been in direct contact with those things.

Mr. WOODRUM. Could you fix up for the record a statement on that, Mr. Harris?

Mr. HARRIS. Prepare it to submit into the record?

Mr. WOODRUM. Yes.

Mr. HARRIS. Yes; I will have to do that because I am unable to answer the question offhand.

Mr. WOODRUM. Will you prepare for the record, then, a statement of whatever you have done in the way of lending personnel on a reimbursable basis, or whatever transfers have been made?

Mr. HARRIS. Yes.

(The information requested is as follows:)

Reimbursable items, fiscal year 1942

Personnel transferred: To Office of the Coordinator of Information, reimbursable, approximately

$3, 360. 00

Personnel to be employed: To be reimbursed by Bureau of Navigation, Department of the Navy, approximately

2, 340. 00

Work in progress: For National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, approximately..

3, 000. 00

Work completed: For Bureau of Ordnance, Department of the Navy,

actual cost..

360. 73

Total..

9, 060. 73

PRINTING AND BINDING

Mr. WOODRUM. We will take up next the item for printing and binding, which reads as follows:

Printing and binding: For all printing and binding, $12,400.

Dr. Buck. I offer for the record the following justification:

ESTIMATES OF APPROPRIATIONS, THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES, FISCAL YEAR Ending JUNE 30, 1943

PRINTING AND BINDING

The printing and binding requirements of The National Archives cover the printing and binding of the Archivist's Annual Report, rules and regulations,

guides, inventories, serials, pamphlets, bulletins, circulars, catalogs, labels, stationery, forms, blank books, etc., for general use and for keeping the records and files pertaining to archives and the activities of The National Archives. In addition, this estimate covers the binding of books for the library and of the unbound portions of partly bound archival series and also the rebinding of such volumes as are in need thereof.

PHOTOGRAPHING, ETC. OF ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS PRIOR TO DISPOSAL

Mr. WOODRUM. I would like to ask you what if anything has been done in connection with Public Law 788 of the Seventy-sixth Congress, approved September 24, 1940, providing for the photographing and microphotographing of records and parts of records, and so forth? What has been done on that?

Dr. Buck. Many of the agencies of the Government are operating under the provisions of that act. In practically every case, I think, before they begin operations, they consult The National Archives because they want to make sure that the results of their work will be approved by the Archivist and that they will be allowed to dispose of the records after they have been microcopied. That means that the technically equipped members of the staff of National Archives have to spend a good deal of time going over the plans of these agencies and then, after they have microfilmed bodies of records with a view to disposing of the originals and preserving only the microfilm, it is necessary, under the provisions of that act, that a deputy of the Archivist examine the microcopy to make sure it has been made in conformance with the standards set up by the National Bureau of Standards and to make sure that it is properly preserved and so arranged that it will be available for use. After that has been done, then the Archivist authorizes the disposal of the originals and only the microcopy is preserved, resulting in a saving, in some cases, of around 95 percent of the space.

Mr. WOODRUM. That films the record on a miniature film which can be stored in a very small space and then enlarged whenever necessary and easily available through indexing? That is the microfilm process?

Dr. BUCK. Yes, sir. It is very important, however, before records are microfilmed, to see that they are very carefully arranged in proper order; because the arrangement is frozen, as it were, on the film. * If papers in a file are out of order, they can be restored to order; but, if they are microfilmed out of order, they are frozen in that incorrect order. So that we have to be very careful to see that the records are put in proper condition for microfilming before they are filmed.

STATUS OF CONSTRUCTION OF EXTENSION TO BUILDING

Mr. WOODRUM. As I recall, some time ago we gave you funds or authorization for some additional construction down there needed for the Archives. What is the situation on that?

Dr. Buck. I will ask Mr. Harris to answer that.

Mr. HARRIS. Congress last year appropriated $500,000 toward completing the building which, in turn, would increase the facilities with which The National Archives could accession records from the departments. There is also still available approximately $50,000 out of the original building fund and $50,000 out of the P. W. A. grant for the

construction of the extension to the building. As of this date, no contract has been awarded during this fiscal year toward completing any of the projects which Congress authorized last year. The items were submitted and taken up with the Public Buildings Administration; but, to date, no contracts have been awarded and, needless to say, now more than ever we need the stock equipment in order to provide more equipped space so that we may be able to render to Federal agencies the maximum service in transferring records and in making them available for use.

Mr. WOODRUM. What does the Public Buildings Administration have to say about that; what is the reason that they give?

Mr. HARRIS. That I am afraid I cannot answer exactly. At first, I think some of their staff was tied up on defense contracts; then they ran into priorities and there was difficulty in getting a priority status from O. P. M. I had a conference about 10 days ago with Mr. Reynolds and he assured me that the items would be expedited. That is as far as I know the situation today.

Mr. WOODRUM. But you badly need the space, whenever they can get to it?

Mr. HARRIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. But there are national-defense projects which are more necessary, and that is why you are waiting?

Mr. HARRIS. Yes, sir.

(After discussion off the record:)

Mr. DIRKSEN. The committee may be interested to know that Dr. Buck was one of my old instructors at the University of Minnesota.

SUFFICIENCY OF SPACE

Mr. HOUSTON. Has this defense work increased?,

Dr. Buck. Yes, sir; it has.

Mr. HOUSTON. Do you still have a lot of space down there that has not been equipped or fixed up to handle this incoming material? Dr. BUCK. We have very considerable space; yes.

Mr. HOUSTON. There still is not any shortage of space?

Dr. BUCK. Well, we can still take in considerable quantities of records, but what happens at present is that most of the records that are brought in have to be put-on open shelves because we lack containers in which to put them.

Mr. HOUSTON. I can understand that.

Dr. Buck. And there are parts of the building in which not even shelving has been installed as yet.

Mr. HOUSTON. But any material that is brought in, processed, and kept there is never disposed of; it stays there forever?

Dr. Buck. No, sir. We have authority under the National Archives Act to recommend to Congress material for disposal, and we have done. that and expect to do more of it. As we find, in arranging and organizing the material, bodies of papers that are not worth preserving permanently, we set them aside and recommend them for disposal, and we believe there are very considerable quantities of such material in the building. We cannot always tell in advance, before we take the materials in and have them sorted over, just what are worth preserving and what are not.