44, 737.01 1, 257, 938. 22 168, 538. 97

2, 476, 093. 52 1, 239, 656. 26 10, 062. 70

88, 141. 10 34, 375. 74 637, 089. 79 1,040, 692. 34 3, 986, 761. 02 6, 528. 16

(d) Due July 1, 1941, $1,000; July 1, 1942, $1,000; July 1, 1943, $1,100.

(e) Monthly installments of $170.40 to cover interest and principal, the installments being payable from revenue.

Cash advanced for the purchase, rehabilitation, and operation of property.

Mr. WESSENAUER. I think, Mr. Chairman, there is one other item I should mention. You will note in plate 4 that the estimated power requirements in 1943 are about 250,000 kilowatts in excess of the available power. Part of that deficiency we hope to be able to obtain through interconnections with adjacent systems. We have recently built a line from Norris Dam to Pineville, Ky., where we connect with the Kentucky Utilities Co. The American Gas & Electric system is extending its facilities to that same point.

We are also constructing a line from Nashville, Tenn., to meet a line being built from Louisville by the Louisville Gas & Electric Co. This will connect with the systems in Louisville, Cincinnati, and southern Indiana. Those facilities, in addition to interconnections already existing with the Arkansas system in the west and the C. & S. system to the south, will provide a means whereby any excess power on these systems can be made available to other areas.

Now, part of the program provided by the last supplemental appropriation was to give us additional downstream units to enable greater utilization to be made of the steam capacity in the northern systems with which we will be interconnected. It is achieved in this way: During the night hours the load is less than during the daytime. which means that systems depending solely upon steam or primarily upon steam will have idle steam capacity at night. If we are able to concentrate the output from the hydro system into the day hours by having more capacity to generate the hydro energy at a greater rate

during those day hours, it will be possible to take in energy in the night hours from that idle steam capacity in other systems and, by storing water during those hours, to gain additional power for the time of the day when it will be needed.

In other words, it is in effect taking that steam power at night and storing it in the reservoirs, and releasing it again in the daytime. Now to achieve that result, greater hydro generating equipment is required to produce the hydro power, to take it out of storage during the daytime.

These other systems are going to have difficulties as well in meeting their requirements, but we think that at least 100,000 kilowatts ought to be recoverable through that means in the fall of 1943.

That still leaves requirements of at least 150,000 kilowatts which have not been met by anything that is in the program. If we are fortunate and have good rains, we may not have great difficulty, but it does impose the strong possibility of further rationing of power in 1943, unless some project is authorized which can be completed by early 1943. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That statement is true, even though installed capacity is some 300,000 kilowatts above the peak demand for primary power, and some 200,000 kilowatts above the total peak demand, at the same time?

Mr. WESSENAUER. Yes; you see, any deficiency, Mr. Wigglesworth, is primarily one of energy as shown by plate 4. It is necessary to have energy available at times when it can be used. In the interchange arrangement the energy that can be produced at night by idle steam capacity is put into the reservoirs, in effect, so it can be released during the day hours when it can be useful.

TOTAL INSTALLED CAPACITY IN THE UNITED STATES

Mr. WOODRUM. Mr. Wessenauer, is this not a very intelligent question? Maybe it is not. How much is the total generated electric power? In other words, how much total electric current do we have generated for all purposes?

Mr. WESSENAUER. În our area?

Mr. WOODRUM. In the United States.

Mr. WESSENAUER. I can put a figure in the record.

(The information requested is as follows:)

In the Federal Power Commission Monthly Reports on Production and Utilization of Electric Energy in the United States, it is reported that the installed capacity in public-utility generating plants was 43,788,037 kilowatts in November 1941. These same reports show that the total energy generated by these plants for the 12-month period ending November 30, 1941, was 162,761,817,000 kilowatthours. This does not include generation of electric railways and railroads and other agencies which generate principally for their own use.

Mr. WOODRUM. I was going to follow that with this-to ask you how much of that was used for strictly defense purposes, following that with the question of how much, if any, could be saved for the defense program, if there were a system of rationing put into effect?

Mr. WESSENAUER. I would not be qualified, Mr. Woodrum, to give you the figure for the Nation. The installed capacity in the Nation is something over 40,000,000 kilowatts.

Mr. WOODRUM. Of course, when the average citizen goes down into the metropolitan district of almost any of our large cities, knowing

that there is a shortage of electricity everywhere for defense purposes, and when he sees it put to so many uses that could be spared, he just wonders whether that could be diverted into more attractive channels, and whether it is necessary to do that. There is certainly a lot of it being used now that we could do without very well.

SAVINGS RESULTING FROM "BLACK-OUT' IN FALL OF 1941

Mr. WESSENAUER. For instance, in the program that was in effect in the Southeast last fall, by blacking out the sign lighting and showwindow lighting, and so forth

Mr. STARNES. And the street lights.

Mr. WESSENAUER. And some of the street lights, that is right-the white ways were reduced to the minimum street lighting-we had a saving in our area of between two and three million kilowatt-hours a week, altogether.

Mr. WOODRUM. There are chandeliers similar to the one in this room, I expect, in every Government building in the city of Washington today. Would any electric light that could be turned out help the situation, or would the proposition be one of getting that into the transmission lines and into the centers where it is needed, and would that be so complicated that you really would not gain anything by it? Mr. WESSENAUER. That is one part of the problem. It is not only difficult to effect the savings where the savings can be made, but also to get that power from the place where it is now generated to those plants which have need of the power.

Mr. STARNES. May I suggest to you, Mr. Wessenauer, that you obtain the information and supply the answers to the chairman's questions? I think they are very pertinent and touch right on the heart of the problem. It is information that the country should have, and especially that this committee should have.

Mr. WESSENAUER. I think the best place to get that information, if I may suggest it, is the O. P. M. Power Division or the Federal Power Commission, as they no doubt have studied that situation from the national standpoint, whereas I would only have it for our area.

(The information requested is as follows:)

(In off the record discussion it was agreed that this information would be secured by the committee from sources with responsibility for national power supply. See p. 1074 of statement given by Federal Power Commission.)

Mr. WOODRUM. But it is a fact that much could be accomplished by conservation of the use of electricity for nonessentials and diverting it as far as possible into useful channels?

Mr. WESSENAUER. I am certain that some of that will have to be done.

Mr. STARNES. Getting it away from night clubs and "hot spots"? Mr. WOODRUM. Well, not too much away from them.

Mr. STARNES. And getting it into defense production?

Mr. WOODRUM. All right; thank you, sir.

FERTILIZER PROGRAM

Mr. WOODRUM. Whom will you call next, Mr. Lilienthal?
Mr. LILIENTHAL. Mr. Bass.