Mr. CURTIS. Senator, if I may make just one parting comment. My answer to your question relating to whether our regulations define meetings as face-to-face deliberations should be clarified for the record. I stated it would be my personal view that you could not eliminate conference calls from the requirements of our regulations because I did not recall that as an aspect of our regulations.

I have now had the opportunity to check that. As I read our implementing regulations, it tracks exactly the language of the statute with respect to the definition of a meeting. I am wondering if there is some confusion that I am not aware of.

Senator CHILES. What we were looking at was the Administrative Order No. 8, which was dated April 9, 1976, and which, under definitions, is used in this order and subsection C. It said that Commission meetings are defined as face-to-face deliberations of at least the number of Commissioners required to take action.

Mr. CURTS. Yes, sir. That was the order prior to the Sunshine Act. After enactment of the Sunshine Act, the Commission took guidance from the Congress.

Senator CHILES. Good, we are delighted with that change.

Thank you very much.

Mr. CURTIS. Thank you, sir.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Curtis follows:]

STATEMENT OF

CHARLES B. CURTIS

CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON FEDERAL SPENDING PRACTICES AND OPEN GOVERNMENT
OF THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE

November 29, 1977

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee,

I am appearing today in response to your November 2nd letter concerning the implementation and impact of the Government in the Sunshine Act since it became effective on March 11, 1977. Your staff has indicated to us that your particular interest is the implementation of the statute's open meeting requirements.

Although I am meeting with you today as the Chairman

of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, of necessity, my statement relates, in large measure, to the Federal Power Commission's experience under the Sunshine Act. As you are aware, upon the activation of the Department of Energy on October 1, 1977, the Federal Power Commission, on which I had the privilege of serving as the last Chairman, was terminated and most of its jurisdictional responsibilities were transferred to the new Federal Energy Regulatory

Commission. The FPC's regulations, including those implementing the Sunshine Act, were made applicable to the FERC by Order No. 1 issued October 6, 1977.

FPC Administrative Actions to Open Commission Meetings

As you may know, the Federal Power Commission opened its meetings to public observation prior to enactment of the Sunshine Act pursuant to its Administrative Order No. 160, issued April 1, 1976. 1/ The first FPC open meeting took place on April 21, 1976, or approximately five months before the Sunshine Act was adopted and approximately 11 months before it became effective. A total of 71 Commission meetings were held during that period and all but five of them were open to the public.

The Federal Power Commission issued Order No. 562, 2/ implementing the Sunshine Act, on March 11, 1977. The FPC's regulations for implementation of the open meeting provisions of the Sunshine Act were prepared in consultation with the Administrative Conference of the United States.

1/ See Appendix A.

2/ See Appendix B.

The proposed regulations were widely supported by the respondents to the notice of proposed rulemaking as an important extension of the process of opening FPC deliberations to public scrutiny. Indeed, as one respondent noted: "The Commission's open meetings have provided the public

with a better understanding of the Commission's decisionmaking processes, and have enabled . parties vitally

affected by Commission regulation to better plan their operations on the basis of the Commission's expressed intentions

Between March 11 and October 1, 1977, the FPC held 46 meetings under Order No. 562, or approximately 8 meetings per month. Of the 46 meetings, only 4 were closed to public observation. 3/ Two of the meetings concerned the Alaska Natural Gas Pipeline System, then the subject of an on-the-record proceeding before the FPC in connection

with its recommendation to the President.

The other two

meetings involved a number of pending on-the-record proceedings, civil litigation, or internal personnel matters properly closed to the public.

3/ Copies of General Counsel Certifications required by the Sunshine Act are contained in Appendix C.

t

Since the activation of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission on October 1, the Commission has held 13 meetings. Of this number only 2 meetings have been closed in part to public observation. 4/ Those sessions were closed in order to discuss pending civil litigation involving the Commission. At the time Order No. 562 was adopted, the FPC recognized that a majority of its meetings could properly be closed to the public pursuant to exemptions 4, 8, 9A or 10 of the Sunshine Act, thus qualifying the Commission to adopt simplified procedures for closing Commission meetings under subsectio. (d) (4) of Section 3 of the Act. The FPC decision not to adopt such procedures reflected a conscious policy to close meetings only on a case-by-case basis. Absent some future need to modify our procedures, we will continue to follow the more restrictive procedures for closing Commission meetings. We believe in maximizing the opportunity for public involvement in the decision-making process and it will continue to be Commission policy to close meetings or parts of meetings only on a selected and limited basis as the need arises.

4/ Copies of the General Counsel Certifications are contained in Appendix D.