Senator HARTKE. We have some difficulty. I am on the Finance Committee and I have been watching that excise tax legislation. You know, it is now before the Rules Committee of the House already. It is certain to come over from the House in very short order, possibly before the first of the month.

And I don't know how deeply you plan to go into this matter, or how long you are going to take, but if there is going to be a recommendation, it is certainly going to have come forward very fast.

Mr. BoYD. I am hopeful, Senator Hartke, that the Department of Commerce has already taken a position apropos of the existing legislation. I will not be over at Commerce until the first of June, and I think it would be rather unseemly of me, without having talked to the people who have developed whatever position there is, to now state what I think the position ought to be.

Senator HARTKE. But you do have this unique opportunity which I think is uniquely yours, that is, you come from the CAB, where you have direct relationship with the airlines and air economics and are quite familiar with this whole background of what it means for a change of this nature, whether it would mean, as Senator Monroney has said, whether it would mean real value to the transportation, air transportation, or whether it would be a detriment and how it is to be adjusted.

I think these matters certainly would be of the highest value to us and I would hope you would follow the chairman's recommendation and come forward with such ideas as you might have, even at your present position on the CAB, at the earliest possible moment.

Mr. BOYD. All right, sir.

Senator MONRONEY. I will put it this way: I would hope that the administration would take judicial notice of this committee's interest and request his opinion of the soon-to-be Under Secretary of Transportation.

Senator HARTKE. That is fine.

Senator MONRONEY. Any further questions?

(No response.)

Senator MONRONEY. Thank you very much, Chairman Boyd, for your participation in these hearings and good wishes in your departure from the Civil Aeronautics Board, and with certainly the gratitude of this member of this committee, and I think most of the others for a job well done, faithfully performed, and with equal justice under the law for all. You can certainly be very proud of your exceptional service on the Civil Aeronautics Board.

Mr. BOYD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
(Whereupon, at 11 a.m., the committee was adjourned.)

BOYD, DAY, HARLLEE, MCKEE, MURPHY, AND THOMAS

The committee met at 11 a.m., in room 5110, New Senate Office Building, Hon. A. S. Mike Monroney presiding.

Senator MONRONEY. We appreciate very much, Senator Jordan, your appearing here with the distinguished Charles S. Murphy, one of our most competent career servants in Government.

I believe he started in Government as a staff member and a very good one, indeed, of the U.S. Senate in the Legislative Drafting Service. And I had the great pleasure of knowing him at that time and have followed consistently his service under various Presidents and in high-ranking positions.

We recognize you at this time, for your testimony, on behalf of Mr. Murphy, Senator Jordan.

STATEMENT OF HON. B. EVERETT JORDAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA

Senator JORDAN. Mr. Chairman, may I make a statement for my friend, Mr. Murphy, before you start questioning him. First of all, I want to say that I am speaking for Senator Ervin, also. He couldn't be here this morning. He is tied up in a committee meeting, and he is equally interested in this appointment of Mr. Murphy.

As you well aptly put it, Mr. Murphy has had a fong and distinguished career in Government and every place he has ever been, he has brought great credit to that particular office and done a fine job.

As you know now, he is leaving Agriculture, where I have been intimately associated with him, a great many matters affecting Agriculture, because I am a member of the Agriculture Committee in the Senate, and I have found him most helpful and most cooperative and very capable in his knowledge of the subject that he was supposed to perform.

I am sure that the CAB is going to get equally high service from Mr. Murphy that he has been giving to the Agriculture Department, and I personally, and I am sure all of his friends regret very much that he is leaving Agriculture, but we are always happy that one of our friends gets a promotion to a better job or a higher place with more distinction, which, of course, the CAB certainly is.

Staff counsel assigned to this hearing: William T. Beeks, Jr.

I am sure he will do a great job in that agency also. I recommend him to you highly, to this distinguished group of Senators on this committee.

Senator MONRONEY. Thank you very much, Senator Jordan. We appreciate your appearance here on behalf of your constituent. As you say, career Government servant, who has served Agriculture since 1961, and who has been active at all levels of government, coming into the executive department through being a member of the staff of the U.S. Senate.

I would like to insert in the record at this point a letter from Senator Joseph D. Tydings and a biographical sketch of Under Secretary Murphy.

(The letter and biographical sketch follow :)

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,

U.S. SENATE,

May 18, 1965.

Hon. WARREN G. MAGNUSON,

Chairman, Senate Committee on Commerce.

DEAR SENATOR MAGNUSON: I was delighted to learn that the President has nominated Charles S. Murphy, of Maryland, to be a member of the Civil Aeronautics Board for the remainder of the term expiring December 31, 1968, vice Alan S. Boyd.

I know that Mr. Murphy is a competent, well-qualified, and dedicated public servant, and I am happy to add my endorsement of his nomination.

Best wishes.
Sincerely,

JOSEPH D. TYDINGS.

CHARLES S. MURPHY, UNDER SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE

Mr. Murphy, 55 years of age, has been Under Secretary of Agriculture since early 1961. In this position, he is the No. 2 man in the administration of the Department of Agriculture and serves as Acting Secretary in the absence of the Secretary of Agriculture.

The Under Secretary has a general supervisory responsibility for all the Department's activities and agencies. In addition, he has various special responsibilities.

Mr. Murphy is chairman of the Budget Committee of the Department of Agriculture and President of the Commodity Credit Corporation.

He has special responsibility for supervising the commodity programs of the Department. This includes support prices and acreage allotments for tobacco, rice, peanuts, cotton, wheat, feed grains, and other commodities. It also includes policies relating to management and disposition of Government stocks of agricultural commodities, and the purchase and distribution of commodities for the school lunch program as well as the direct distribution program for providing foods to needy persons.

Under Secretary Murphy coordinates and reviews the Department's staff work on major legislative proposals and reviews departmental reports on legislation. He has represented the United States in a number of international conferences and negotiations relating to foreign trade in agricultural products.

The Under Secretary serves as the Secretary's alternate in attending Cabinet meetings and meetings of Cabinet-level interdepartmental committees. Mr. Murphy was born August 20, 1909, in Wallace N.C., where he attended public schools. He received an A.B. degree from Duke University at Durham, N.C., in 1931 and an LL.B. in 1934. He worked his way through school as a laborer and clerk in the post office. He was admitted to the North Carolina bar in 1934.

In 1934, he became a law assistant in the Office of the U.S. Senate Legislative Counsel, serving in this post for 2 years. For the next 11 years, he was Assistant Legislative Counsel to the Senate.

His duties were to help the Senators and senatorial committees draft bills and committee reports and to advise them on legal matters.

In 1947, he became Administrative Assistant to President Truman. he was advanced to the position of Special Counsel to the President.

In 1950,

From 1953 to 1961, Mr. Murphy practiced law as a member of the Washington, D.C., firm of Morison, Murphy, Clapp & Abrams. He was admitted to the Supreme Court bar in 1944, and to the District of Columbia bar in 1947. From 1957-60, he was counsel to the Democratic National Advisory Council.

The Under Secretary is a member of the American Bar Association, the North Carolina Bar Association, the Federal Bar Association, and the District of Columbia Bar Association. From 1956-58, he was president of the National Capital Democratic Club. He also belongs to the Order of the Coif, Delta Sigma Phi, Pi Gamma Mu, and Omicron Delta Kappa.

Mr. Murphy married Kate Chestney Graham, of Durham, N.C., in 1931. They have three children. One daughter, Courtenay, is married to Whitney Slater and lives in Arlington, Va. Westbrook, their son, is a law student at Yale University. Another daughter, Betty, 16, lives at home. She attends Woodrow Wilson High School in Washington.

Senator MONRONEY. We appreciate your coming here and we will now proceed with the questioning of Mr. Murphy.

You will take over, if confirmed, the very important job of heading up a bipartisan Board in whose destiny the future of aviation rests. Certainly your past experience in the Government as administrative assistant to President Truman, your experience in the Senate, Legislative Reference Service, and experience in the Department of Agriculture as No. 2 man there, would qualify you in many fields of administration. Such experience will prove invaluable in your capacity as Chairman of the Civil Aeronautics Board.

Your legal experience, in having been a member of several distinguished law firms and serving in a legal capacity with the Government, will prove of great value.

I am sure that members of the committee want to question you regarding your attitudes in the job you are about to take, particularly with the development and leadership that is required by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the field of air safety as well as the development of American-flag lines around the world, development of better service by our scheduled trunklines and perpetuation of our feeder lines and if possible, retention of our helicopter lines.

I would like to ask Senator Hartke, who is very interested in this subject, if he would care to question you at this time.

Senator HARTKE. Mr. Murphy, I want to congratulate him upon his new appointment. Can I ask him another question other than that? I am not going to push this matter of helicopters with you here.

Have you had any experience-you know I hold you in high regard-have you had any experience directly related to the aviation industry?

Mr. MURPHY. I have had some, not a great deal. I did, in 1937 and 1938, work at some length on the Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938. When I was a member of the White House staff one of my assignments, staff assignments, was on behalf of the President, to work with the Civil Aeronautics Board.

Senator HARTKE. You are a civilian?

Mr. MURPHY. I am a civilian.

Senator HARTKE. I call your attention to the law in this regard, it says here

at time of his nomination shall be a civilian and shall have experience in the field directly related to aviation.

I do that for the purpose of just putting it into the record. Whenever these appointments come up and discussion is had, we feel it is proper for us to consider how we are interpreting some of these laws, because I think it is going to become very important in another matter coming before this committee very shortly.

Mr. MURPHY. I would like to add one other thing, Senator Hartke, because I would like to make sure that the committee knows it. When I was engaged in private practice of law, I had some limited practice before the Civil Aeronautics Board. I don't think this is enough to create any conflict of interest problem, but I certainly don't want it concealed.

Senator HARTKE. I have no other questions.

Senator MONRONEY. Senator Cotton?

Senator COTTON. I think you are leaning over backward in telling the committee that you did represent some form of airline transportation when you were in private practice. Was it supplemental airlines?

Mr. MURPHY. I did, Senator. I represented at one time three different supplemental carriers.

Senator COTTON. Obviously your attitude in telling us about it, is added assurance, you have no prejudice one way or another in favor of any element of air transportation?

Mr. MURPHY. I don't think so.

Senator COTTON. Mr. Murphy, you have had experience connected with the legislative branch of the Government. You have recently been a high official in the Department of Agriculture which is an arm of the executive branch of the Government. You undoubtedly are aware that many of us feel very strongly and do not want anyone to lose sight of the fact that the CAB is an independent agency and is, we believe, an arm of the Congress, not an arm of the executive branch of the Government.

I would like to know your concept on that point and your viewpoint, if you don't mind telling us. Don't misunderstand me, I am not suggesting that the President of the United States and the executive branch should be ignored in any way, shape or manner. Some of us like to know that everyone who serves on these independent agencies that have been created by Congress recognize the fact that they are an arm of the legislative branch.

Mr. MURPHY. I recognize, Senator, the quasi-legislative character of this board as an independent agency. Of course there are some of the functions that it performs in connection with, and in fact under the direction of the President, particularly as they relate to international air transportation.

In the first place, I have no thought in the world that the President of the United States will undertake to dominate the actions of the Board or to direct by activities as Chairman of the Board.

In the second place, if that should happen, I think I have a pretty full comprehension of the nature of the relationship between the two. I might say that I was reminded of this once when I was on the White House staff by the then Chairman of the Civil Aeronautics Board, who pointed out that the President was in a position to approve or disapprove the actions of the Board in connection with international air transportation, but not air transportation within the United States.