BOYD, DAY, HARLLEE, MCKEE, MURPHY, AND THOMAS The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:20 a.m., in room 5110, New Senate Office Building, Senator Warren G. Magnuson (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Magnuson, Monroney, Lausche, Bartlett, Hartke, Cannon, Neuberger, Pearson, and Dominick. Also present: Gerald B. Grinstein, chief counsel and William T. Beeks, staff counsel. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. At our hearing this morning, we will take up three nominations by the President, two to the Federal Aviation Administration, and one to the Department of Commerce. All three men, of course, are known to the members of the committee and to the Congress, so we were able to schedule this hearing at a much earlier date than in many cases. The first nominee is the Honorable Leroy Collins, of Florida, to be Under Secretary of Commerce, suceeding Franklin D. Roosevelt, Jr.1 Governor Collins, as he has continued to be known, has been for the past year the Director of the Community Relations Service in the Department of Commerce, which grew out of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The next nominee is Gen. William F. McKee to be Administrator of the Federal Aviation Agency succeeding Mr. Najeeb Halaby. General McKee, who has served as Vice Chief of Staff for the Air Force, has most recently been Assistant Administrator for Management Development of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. At a press conference 10 days ago, the President said that General McKee was the best man in the country to carry though successfully the SST program. The third nominee is David D. Thomas, to be Deputy Administrator of the Federal Aviation Agency, succeeding Lt. Gen. Harold W. Grant. Mr. Thomas has been serving as an Associate Administrator for Programs at the Agency and is thoroughly familiar with every facet of its operations. All three nominees have submitted their financial statements to the committee and, in accordance with past. practice, they will be maintained in the committee files where they may be seen by any party interested. 1 The hearing on the nomination of Governor Collins is printed separately. Staff Counsel assigned to this hearing: William T. Beeks, Jr. In addition, each has submitted a biographical sketch and these will be placed in the record. The CHAIRMAN. The next nominee is General McKee. General McKee has been nominated by the President to be Administrator of the Federal Aviation Agency. As the chairman pointed out before, he has filed his financial statement with the committee, which is open for anyone to look at, and we shall put your biography, General, in the record in full. (The biographical sketch follows:) BIOGRAPHY OF GENERAL MCKEE The following biography of General McKee was prepared in 1962. He continued to serve as Vice Chief of Staff, U.S. Air Force, until his retirement on July 31, 1964. On September 1, 1964, General McKee was appointed by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration as Assistant Administrator for Management Development, the position which he currently holds. William F. McKee was born at Chilhowie, Va., October 17, 1906. He was graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., and commissioned a second lieutenant in the Coast Artillery Corps of the Regular Army June 13, 1929. His first assignment upon graduation was with the 13th Coast Artillery at Fort Barrancas, Fla. He then went to Fort Randolph in the Canal Zone where he served as a battery officer in the 1st Coast Artillery. After 2 years' servicce at that station, he was transferred to the 63d Coast Artillery at Fort MacArthur, Calif., where he served as battery commander, assistant adjutant of the harbor defenses of Los Angeles, and later executive officer of the Civilian Conservation Corps in that area. In September 1935, he became a student at the Coast Artillery school at Fort Monroe, Va., and, upon completion of the course the following June, was assigned to Fort Mills, Corregidor, Philippine Islands, as regimental adjutant, plans training and intelligence officer, and battery commander of the 63 Coast Artillery. Returning to the United States in October 1938, he was assigned to the Presidio of San Francisco, Calif., as an assistant to G-2, 9th Corps area. The following October he was again ordered to foreign duty-this time at Fort Buchanan, P.R., where he became battery commander and later commanding officer of the 66th Coast Artillery, transferring with that organization to Borinquen Field, P.R. Later he became executive officer of the Caribbean Interceptor Command under Maj. Gen. Follett Bradley. In October 1941, he returned to the United States for assignment to the 71st Coast Artillery at Fort Story, Va., as battalion commander and regimental adjutant of the 1st Battalion. He later performed the same duties when his division moved to the Naval Operating Base at Norfolk, Va. In January 1942, he was assigned to headquarters, Army Air Forces, and was later appointed Chief of the Antiaircraft and Airdrome Defense Section and Antiaircraft Artillery Division. Shortly thereafter, he became executive officer for the Directorate of Air Defense. In November 1943, he became Deputy Assistant Chief of Air Staff for Operations, Commitments, and Requirements, which corresponds roughly to the present office of the Deputy Chief of Staff, Operations. In January 1946, he was appointed Chief of Staff of Air Transport Command with headquarters at Washington. The following August he went to Europe as commanding general of the European Division, ATC, with station at Paris. France. In December 1946 he transferred to headquarters of the U.S. Air Force in Europe at Wiesbaden, Germany, and the following month became commanding general of the Headquarters Command of USAFE at Wiesbaden. Returning to the United States in August 1947, he was appointed Assistant Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force September 27, 1947. He was assigned to headquarters, Air Materiel Command, as vice commander on June 10, 1953. On April 1, 1961, Air Materiel Command was redesignated Air Force Logistics Command. On August 1, 1961, General McKee became a four-star general and assumed the post of commander, Air Force Logistics Command. On July 1, 1962, General McKee moved to Washington and became Vice Chief of Staff of the Air Force. General McKee has been awarded the Distinguished Service Medal with one Oak Leaf Cluster. He was presented the first annual Distinguished Management Award of the Air Force Association on July 31, 1957. The CHAIRMAN. If there is anything you wish to add to it, you can, but it is quite complete. Of course, most of your service, other than your position now in NASA, has been in the military, is that correct? STATEMENT OF GEN. WILLIAM F. MCKEE, NOMINEE FOR THE POSITION OF ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL AVIATION AGENCY Mr. McKEE. That is correct, sir. The CHAIRMAN. It is a wide service that has covered many, many facets of the miltary. I would like you to explain, what was your responsibility as Vice Chief of Staff for the Air Force. Directly, what were your responsibilities? Mr. McKEE. General LeMay, as Chief of Staff of the Air Force, charged me The CHAIRMAN. Let us get this straight. When were you appointed as Vice Chief of Staff? Mr. MCKEE. July 1962, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And the Chief of Staff was then whom? Mr. MCKEE. General LeMay. The CHAIRMAN. So you have served under General LeMay all the time I mean during that time-until you went to NASA. Mr. McKEE. From July 1962 to July 1964. The CHAIRMAN. What were your duties as Vice Chief of Staff? Mr. MCKEE. As Vice Chief of Staff, General LeMay charged me with the internal operations of the Air Force on the basis that he as Chief of Staff and member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that his time was 75 to 80 percent taken up by his duties on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, by his appearances before Congress, by his relationship with the Office of the Secretary of Defense, so I was primarily charged with the internal, day-to-day operation of the Air Force. The CHAIRMAN. What was your specific duty in relation to contracts in which the Air Force-well, let us say Air Force contracts to private individuals? Mr. McKEE. Private individuals and companies? The CHAIRMAN. Private companies, I mean; yes. Mr. MCKEE. On a policy basis, because as Vice Chief of Staff, the Deputy Chiefs of Staff, including the Deputy Chief of Staff for Research and Development and the Deputy Chief of Staff for Systems and Logistics, took day-to-day direction and supervision from me as Vice Chief of Staff. They, in turn, of course, are on a day-to-day basis, worked with industry, both through the Systems Command and through the Air Force Logistics Command. The CHAIRMAN. What did you have to say, if anything, in relation to a contract that might have been competitive between two companies? What were your responsibilities there as Vice Chief of Staff? Mr. MCKEE. Well, perhaps I can put it best this way, Senator The CHAIRMAN. I mean where there were several companies submitting proposals and the decision had to be made? Mr. McKEE. Well, I will explain how that is done. As Vice Chief of Staff, I was also Chairman of the Air Force Council. On a competition for a major weapons system, we had a rather lengthy and detailed process called source selection. On a major contract, the Source Selection Board was appointed. The Chairman of the Source Selection Board and the Board went into all the pros and cons of the various proposals made by the contractor, and then they came up with a recommendation. That recommendation, with a complete and full presentation, was made to the Air Force Council, of which I was Chairman. The members of the Council were the Deputy Chiefs of Staff. After hearing the pros and cons as proposed by the Source Selection Board, that Council then made a recommendation over my signature to the Chief of Staff. The Chief of Staff either approved our recommendation or disapproved it. The CHAIRMAN. This is the Air Force Chief of Staff? Mr. McKEE. I made the recommendation as Chairman of the Air Force Council to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force. The Chief of Staff of the Air Force then made his recommendation to the Secretary of the Air Force. The CHAIRMAN. And the Secretary to the Air Force, would he make the decision or would he refer to the Secretary of Defense? Mr. McKEE. Referred it on major systems to the Secretary of Defense. The CHAIRMAN. Of Defense? Mr. McKEE. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. So the line would be the Air Force Council, the Selection Mr. McKEE. Right, the Selection Board to the Air Force Council, to the Chief of Staff, to the Secretary of the Air Force, to the Secretary of Defense. The CHAIRMAN. So these contracts would run the gauntlet where there would be competition or different proposals to two, three, four, five different places? Mr. McKEE. Right. Now, what were your responsibilities at NASA? Mr. MCKEE. I had the title of Assistant Administrator for Management Development. In that capacity, Mr. Webb asked me to look over the entire management structure of NASA and make recommendations to him on any changes that I thought should be made. In addition to that, he had several other duties which he gave me, an important one of which was to look over the entire resources of NASA, the picture of the place that NASA plays in the national scheme, and to make suggestions or recommendations to him as to how best those resources could be used in the national interest. And further, that he wished me to take a detailed and close look at the relationships between NASA and the Department of Defense in order that we did not have duplication between the two and in order that we had the best possible national space program. The CHAIRMAN. Would the possibility of duplication be more likely in R. & D. than in direct contracts? Mr. McKEE. That is correct. Your possibility of duplication would be largely in the research and development field and not in contracting. Of course, you might possibly run into some difficulty where, for example, one of the large aerospace concerns had a major NASA contract and at the same time were competing for a defense contract and then, of course, there comes a matter of judgment of whether or not you are putting too much business into one concern, where that concern might possibly not be able to handle the entire load. Fortunately, I do not think there has been very much of that. The CHAIRMAN. Now, NASA contracts out, I suspect, 95 percentGeneral MCKEE. About 80 to 85 percent. The CHAIRMAN. Eighty to eighty-five percent of their appropriation, which would run, they probably contract out over four and a half billion dollars or more a year. General MCKEE. It is in that neighborhood, $4 to $4.5 billion. The CHAIRMAN. How are those contracts selected where they are competitive? General MCKEE. Very similar to the way I described, except it is not that much of, such a lengthy process, because NASA, of course, is operated differently from the Department of Defense, with Mr. Webb as Administrator, of course, reporting directly to the President. They still have a Source Selection Board, which makes a full presentation to Mr. Webb, to Dr. Seamans, and to Dr. Drysden. They form this small group that makes final judgment and final determination with respect to the selection of a contractor. The CHAIRMAN. What did you specifically have to do, if anything, with the recommendation for a selection? General McKEE. In NASA? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. General MCKEE. Absolutely nothing. Mr. Webb intentionally kept me out of that. The only thing he asked me to do in that regard was to sit in on these proceedings to see if I had any suggestions as to how they could better be improved. I thought they were extremely well handled. The CHAIRMAN. Supposing a contract was for an improved booster system-let us use that as an example-where three or four companies were involved. In NASA, is there a selection board set up to look at these? General MCKEE. Oh, yes. The CHAIRMAN. And then they in turn report not to-do they report to you? General MCKEE. No, I have nothing to do with them whatsoever. The CHAIRMAN. Were you called in on some occasions where there was a decision to be made and sat there, or maybe your advice sought? General MCKEE. I did not participate in any of those decisions. This was intentional on Mr. Webb's part. The CHAIRMAN. Were you ever asked as between contractors bidding or whose proposals have been submitted what you thought about it? General McKEE. I was not. The CHAIRMAN. You were not. Would you ever submit to Mr. Webb, Dryden, or the others what you thought about certain contracts as to how they fit into the overall management? |