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General MCKEE. I promise you I will look into it and report.
Senator MONRONEY. This is the Medical Department of FAA?
Senator HARTKE. The Medical Department of FAA.

That is all the questions I have.

Senator MONRONEY. Any further questions, Senator Cannon?
Senator CANNON. No.

Senator MONRONEY. I would like to put into the record the letter from Senator A. Willis Robertson endorsing the nomination of General McKee.

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DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your invitation to comment on the President's nomination of Gen. William F. McKee and David D. Thomas, of Virginia, to be Administrator and Deputy Administrator of the Federal Aviation Agency. I have been privileged to know General McKee for a long time and also to know his father; a distinguished doctor now more than 80 years old, and his three brothers, all of whom are outstanding citizens.

I was present when the President presented a Distinguished Service Medal to General McKee, one of many medals which he has received and pinned a fourth star on his shoulder. At that time, the then Chief of Staff of the Air Force. General LeMay, told me that General McKee was one of the most brilliant men who had ever served in the Air Force.

I think that our Nation would be indeed fortunate to have General McKee serve as Administrator of the FAA and it will give me pleasure to vote for his confirmation.

I know Mr. Thomas by reputation only. All that I know about him is good and there is ample evidence that he is highly competent to discharge the duties of the office for which the President has nominated him.

With kind regards, I am,

Sincerely yours,

A. WILLIS ROBERTSON.

Senator MONRONEY. We will hold the record open for a few days subject to the chairman's wishes and wishes of the members of the committee.

We thank you very much, General McKee, for your courtesy in appearing here and answering the questions the Senators directed to you.

General MCKEE. Thank you.

May I make one statement before I depart?

Senator MONRONEY. Yes.

General MCKEE. I would like to express to the members of the committee and for the record my deep appreciation to Mr. Halaby for his understanding, his help, his assistance in this during the past several weeks. I must say I could not have asked for more. I want to express publicly to the committee my appreciation to him.

Senator MONRONEY. Thank you very much, General McKee.

I may say, since you mentioned Oklahoma City in the discussion about military participation in jobs formerly held by civilians, this occurred rather infrequently. It would happen about every 2 years and would entail two or three jobs. This is one of our big airbases and it did move both ways-civilians were replaced by military and military were replaced by civilians in a few jobs. I always found

General McKee, who was then Vice Chief of Staff, willing to sit lown and discuss these matters, even though there were very few obs at stake. The people were fearful that the positions would be nilitarized, but they never were militarized to any great degree. I nerely say that because the name of Oklahoma City was brought up. We thank you very much for your appearance here.

Next we take up the confirmation of Mr. David E. Thomas to be Deputy Administrator.

Mr. Thomas, we appreciate your appearing before the committee. I will put your biography, which we have prepared for the committee, in the record at this point.

(The biographical sketch of Mr. Thomas follows:)

BIOGRAPHY OF DAVID D. THOMAS, FEDERAL AVIATION AGENCY

David D. Thomas, now Associate Administrator for Programs for the Federal Aviation Agency, has management responsibility in Washington headquarters for planning and coordinating the operating programs of FAA's Air Traffic Service, Flight Standards Service, Airports Service, and Systems Maintenance Service.

Mr. Thomas' appointment to the position on June 12, 1963, came on the occasion of a White House ceremony in which President Kennedy presented the 1963 President's Award for Distinguished Federal Civilian Service to Thomas and four other career Government officials. The highest honor bestowed upon career Federal employees, recipients are selected by the President. The award, which includes a gold medal and a citation, is given for exceptional achievement in advancing important domestic and international programs.

In April 1963 Thomas won the Laura Taber Barbour Award for Air Safety. Administered by the Flight Safety Foundation, the Barbour Award cited Thomas as “*** one of the outstanding experts in this country, if not in the world, on the management of air traffic control."

His first job in air traffic control was at the Pittsburgh Air Traffic Control Center in 1938. After a number of field assignments he was assigned to Washington in January 1946 to serve as Assistant Chief of the Airways Traffic Control Section in the Civil Aeronautics Administration. In June of the same year he became Deputy International Services Officer, holding this position for three and a half years before being assigned as Planning Officer of CAA. In October 1953, Mr. Thomas was made Acting Chief of the Planning Staff and less than a year later he was appointed Deputy Director of CAA's Office of Federal Airways. In July 1956, he was promoted to the position of Director, Office of Air Traffic Control. He was the first to head up the Air Traffic Service when the FAA was formed in 1958.

Mr. Thomas was born in New Castle, Tex., February 19, 1913. He attended the school of mechanical engineering at the University of Tennessee and the school of business administration at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. He is a member of the Institute of Aerospace Sciences, the Air Traffic Control Association, and other aeronautical organizations. He is a deacon in the Church of Christ, Falls Church, Va.

He holds a commercial pilot certificate with multiengine and instrument ratings and is a graduate of USAF fighter/interceptor and bomber aircraft indoctrination training courses.

Mr. Thomas resides at 3909 Rose Lane, Annandale, Va., with his wife, the former Dorothy Clark of Murfreesboro, Tenn., a daughter Frances, 22, and a son, David, 18.

Senator MONRONEY. I want to say personally that we are familiar with your splendid work as one of the veteran career officers of the FAA since its beginning, a man who is considered an expert in his line in all phases of air traffic control, flight standards, airports and systems maintenance.

I was delighted when the President appointed you, the senior career man in the FAA, to this position as Deputy Administrator. This is

a very important spot, since it deals primarily with the whole workings of our air traffic control system.

You might elaborate for the committee some of the years you have spent in this so we will have that on the record.

STATEMENT OF DAVID E. THOMAS, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR OF FEDERAL AVIATION AGENCY

Mr. THOMAS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

As my biography shows, I began my career in 1938 in air traffic control. I worked in quite a few sections of the country in air traffic control and in our regional offices and the Washington office. For the past 2 years, I have been charged in the position of Associate Administrator for Programs, I have been charged with air traffic control systems, navigation and communication, certification of airmen and aircraft, and the Federal aid to airport program. I have spent my entire working life essentially in the field of aviation.

Senator MONRONEY. You are an expert on the air traffic control systems and electronics as well, are you not?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir, I am fundamentally a controller. I am also a pilot.

Senator MONRONEY. You are also a pilot?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir.

Senator MONRONEY. In regard to our air traffic control system, there are always efforts to update and modernize the system. Could you give the committee some idea about what is happening in this field?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir. We are now on the verge, I think, of very great improvements in the air traffic control field after a considerable period of work in the research and development area.

We now have in operation in the Atlanta control tower and in the Indianapolis air traffic control center, as well as our experimental facilities at Atlantic City, a device which portrays directly on the scope the altitude and identification of aircraft if they are appropriately equipped with the so-called beacon; that is, the secondary radar that does transmit altitude and identity. This will help us greatly because for the first time, it will tell the controller precisely which airplane and at which altitude, rather than him having to keep this in his mind as the blips crawl across the scope. We think this will be as great an improvement to air traffic control as the introduction of radar was in the first instance.

Senator MONRONEY. Radar shows up flat on a normal scope, but the transponder gives the altitude constantly, does it not, so the man watching the scope will know whether one plane or another which are apparently on a collision course are separated vertically by 5,000 or 10,000 feet?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir. The controller does not know now, except as the pilot reports and he retains it in his mind, whether these thousands and thousands of targets daily have altitude separation, so they do unnecessary work. They may be, as you say, 5,000 or 10,000 feet apart.

Senator MONRONEY. This is in the tower at Atlanta?
Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir.

Senator MONRONEY. And that is the only place?

Mr. THOMAS. We installed it initially at Atlanta for test and we also have it partially at Indianapolis for test. Our first full-fledged installation will be at Jacksonville.

Senator MONRONEY. Since you have been familiar with the survey that was taken by the flight service stations and the proposed closings of them, I wish you could bring us up to date on that and any attitude you have toward the closing of these flight service stations.

So

Mr. THOMAS. All right, Mr. Chairman. As I believe you stated, we are running some tests with so-called flight service facilities which are reduced service, and in addition, what we call an airport information desk, an aid location which provides for weather communications at airports which do not now have service in anticipation of reducing our present 335 stations to something like 154. But to do so, we would greatly increase the service at other locations which do not have them now in the daytime by providing for either teletype or telephone communication and cooperative weather observing. that the total number of weather observations would go from presently about 750 to 800 to, we hope, around 1,100 or 1,200, so there would be more service during the daytime. Our problem is that most of the general aviation flying, nearly 90 percent of it, occurs during the daylight hours-we can afford to service well there-and very little of it at the night hours. So we are trying to spread our resources so we can give more service at more locations during the day hours and less during the night hours. This has not been received well. Our tests are just now concluding; I do not know the result. We are going to go before the House committee, with Chairman Harris, with the results before we proceed further. There is no money in our 1966 budget to make any change from the present situation. So we shall carry on as we are until this thing is thoroughly explored, with a hope that whatever program we come out with, we will give more weather and more information where it is needed for less funds than we are spending

now.

It costs up to $5 to contact to get some weather at night at the present time.

Senator MONRONEY. But there are funds in the current FAA budget that will continue the present flight service stations through another year; is that correct?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; the present flight service stations will be continued until such time as we thrash this out with Congress. Senator MONRONEY. Senator Cannon?

Senator CANNON. On this experimental facility that you are talking about for your vertical separation, what has been your success so far with it?

Mr. THOMAS. Very well. We have some aircraft equipped. Several of the airlines have aircraft equipped. In fact, the newer jets are coming out so equipped. Our people are very enthusiastic about it. Measurements we have been running indicate very good correspondence with what the policy is and whether it actually reports within 100 or 200 feet. We are still taking measurements on this.

Senator CANNON. Is this going to require the installation of expensive equipment in the civilian-type aircraft to be useful in the system?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; to be usable in the system, it will require a radar transponder. This will be a mandatory requirement, however, only in the positive control areas in the future.

We do not see any mandatory requirement for most of the general aviation for some years. Quite a few of the business fleet are purchasing it now because it does give quite an additional advantage to them. They have their identity and altitude transmitted immediately. But it does require additional equipment in the aircraft.

Senator CANNON. This is something that has been needed for a long time and I shall certainly be very happy to see it come in as rapidly as possible. But I am sure you are aware of the concern that every time a regulation comes out requiring something to be on these small aircraft, a relatively inexpensive-type aircraft, these gadgets that must go on it run up into quite a sizable amount of

money.

Mr. THOMAS. That is correct, Senator. As you know, the airlines do carry the radar beacon as does the military. Most of the business fleet, also. So we are hoping to eventually get it down cheaper. But right at the present time, it is around $2,500 installed.

Senator CANNON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Senator MONRONEY. That is not automated with the altimeter, is it?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; this would be-well, the airlines may be

more.

Senator MONRONEY. In other words, they do not have to set it. It is geared into the altimeter to reflect the correct position?

Mr. THOMAS. It transmits continuously a preset identity and reads the altitude information off the altimeter so the pilot does not touch it. Senator MONRONEY. We hear a lot about blind landing capabilities. There have been several tests made lately regarding lowering the present service ceilings.

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir.

Senator MONRONEY. Could you inform the committee about that? Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; for all practical purposes, our limits now are listed as 200-foot ceiling and a half-mile visibility. We are now going into a program of what we call category 2 landings, which will be in the same terms for 100 feet and quarter-mile visibility, actually 1,200 feet visibility, with runway visibility along the runway starting out at 1,600 feet. Several airlines are now engaged in the training program and buying the equipment to do that. We are trying to improve some of our instrument landing facilities, which will assure the type of operation. Our next step will be sometime in the future, half that, down to 600-foot runway visibility, and it will be quite some time in the future before we get down to really completely blind landings.

Senator MONRONEY. But you are working on that type of program, constantly trying to improve the electronic capability of handling these airplanes?

Mr. THOMAS. Oh, yes, we have demonstrated how to make quite a number of them. But we are talking about the tests now.

Senator CANNON. What is the status of your study on Washington National with respect to lifting the limits on jet operation?

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