they fixed the income of 627 benefices at 200l. a-year, of 229 at 300l. a-year, and of 259 at 400l. a-year, there would be, after all deductions, a much larger surplus than even that on which they had calculated. But his right hon. Friend, the Member for Cumberland, said, 'I cannot conceive that we can have a Church Establishment unless the means of religious worship are brought to every man's door.' If that were correct, then he must say that we had not had what the right hon. Baronet would call a Church Establishment' in Ireland for many years, for most certainly it had not had the effect which his right hon. Friend thought essential, of carrying the means of religious instruction home to every man's door. He could show his right hon. Friend unions of parishes, in which the Church was distant from its communicants, ten, fifteen, and twenty-five miles. There were fifty benefices in Ireland, in which the whole number of Protestants was 526; in these benefices there were seventy-nine clergymen, sixty-nine of whom were non-resident, and in fortytwo of them there was no church at all; yet the total amount of their tithe-revenues was not less than 13,8891. Making out this calculation to the utmost extent, he found that the amount of revenue derived from these benefices was in the proportion of 125l. for every Protestant inhabitant. In another union of parishes, the number of Protestants was seventy-three, and the income 3,700l. Which, he asked, were the truest friends to the Church, those who would build places of worship, and provide instruction where Protestants were resident, or those who would continue the present system with all its anomalies? But they were told that they ought to build churches, even where there were no Protestants now, and that congregations would come to them. That might have been wise some thirty, or forty, or fifty years ago, but that opportunity was let go by unheeded; and, like

the man who could have passed the sands while the waters were low, but who delayed till they rose, there was now only the waters on one side, or a precipice on the other. But his noble Friend said, that no deduction of revenue should be made where there was now a church and a clergyman. He would take the case of Rathfriland, where there were a church and a clergyman; but there was not one Protestant inhabitant, though there were 1,400 Catholics. Was that a case in which they ought to keep up an Establishment and a resident clergyman? His noble Friend had referred to the cases of Collon and Dundalk, and pointed out the evils which would result from separations of some of the unions; but these separations had been recommended by the Commissioners, who were all members of the Established Church. It was said, however, that if they adopted this Bill, they must go farther. He asked those who urged that argument, 'If we do not sanction the principle of this Bill, can we continue as we now are?' For his part, after the best consideration which he could give to the subject, he had no hesitation in saying, and he believed that in this he spoke the sense of the great majority of the House, that the time for applying the remedy to these evils had arrived. That remedy his Majesty's Government had proposed, and to it they now asked the sanction of Parliament. If they passed this measure, they would render the collection of tithe practicable in Ireland, and give the Established Church in that country a degree of permanent security and stability which it never before possessed. The Roman Catholic inhabitants of Ireland would at length consider that their interests, their wishes, and their feelings were not wholly neglected by the Legislature of the United Kingdom. They would at length believe that they were objects of some care and consideration with the Imperial Parliament. That the measure

was not perfect he admitted; but did his noble Friend think they could rest as they were, without some such Bill? Did he think it possible, without some such measure, to support the Established Church in any form whatever? If this measure were refused, it would be utterly impossible to continue the tithe system, a system which, as now carried on in Ireland, was so repugnant to the principles of justice, and so opposed to the feelings of the great majority of their fellow-subjects in that country. Without going the full length of the principles of this Bill, it would be utterly impossible to collect tithe in Ireland in any shape, and the attempt would be productive of such scenes as the right hon. and gallant Officer, the late Secretary for Ireland, so strongly deprecated. They who said that the collection of tithes would be practicable without this Bill, must also say, that the sword which was hitherto glued to the scabbard is now withdrawn.' Could they look calmly at the consequences? If this Bill were rejected, those who refused it would probably have another Bill pressed on them at a future time, which would perhaps go much farther; and then there would be unavailing regrets that the present measure was not adopted in good time. Let him, in conclusion, impress upon the House, that after the events which had recently occurred, there was no returning to the old system; and even if they could return to it, the growing discontent of the Irish people would render such a proceeding inefficacious. If the House passed this Bill, they would settle the question of tithe and secure to the Church a certain amount of revenue. These were some of the results which he confidently expected would flow from the measure, which had the additional advantage of having received the support of those who had hitherto been adverse to all propositions of a similar description. That circumstance, he trusted,

H

would render its reception and success in Ireland a matter of certainty. He confidently anticipated that it would be considered a work of peace, and a testimony of the disposition of the House not to forget the real claims of the Irish people, nor to be backward in redressing the grievances of which they had so loudly and so justly complained. These were the grounds on which he urged the House to lend its sanction to the measure, and resist the Motion of the right hon. Baronet. These were the grounds on which he founded his hopes of its practical success.

TITHES (ENGLAND).

July 24, 1835.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL had, on a former occasion, stated the reasons why his Majesty's Ministers did not think it expedient to proceed with a measure on the subject of the tithe-laws in England during the present Session. He now begged to add, that he should be prepared, on the part of the Government, early in the next Session of Parliament, to submit a measure on the subject to the consideration of the Legislature. On a former occasion he had stated, that he thought it would be advisable that the subject, after it had been laid before Parliament, should be referred to the consideration of a Select Committee, in order that the different bearings of the question, and the different amount and operation of tithes in different parts of the country, might be duly and properly considered. He would only add, that he still retained the same opinion as to the propriety of that course.

REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, &c.- DISSENTERS'

MARRIAGES.

February 12, 1836.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL rose for the purpose of bringing forward a Bill for the general registration of births, marriages, and deaths, and likewise a Bill for the purpose of amending the laws regulating the marriages of Dissenters. At that time of the night he thought it would be most convenient to the House if he stated in as short a manner as he could the object and the general provisions of both these Bills. It would, perhaps, be in the recollection of some hon. Members of that House that at the time when a right hon. Member opposite proposed to bring in a Bill to regulate the marriages of Dissenters last year, he (Lord John Russell) stated his opinion, that a Bill to be sufficient and satisfactory for the regulation of Dissenters' marriages should be preceded by a Bill of registration. But he had not brought forward any Bill upon the subject-because any plan that could have been devised for this purpose was considered by the Government of that day as entailing an expense which formed an insurmountable objection to its adoption--that is to say, an objection, not to the principle, or to its being one day or other adopted, but an objection to its being brought forward at that time, until a plan had been more maturely considered, and until it was seen whether it could not be carried into effect economically, and with a prospect of its final success. But laying aside altogether for the present moment that part of the measure which related particularly to the grievances complained of by the Dissenters, he thought that in a general and national point of view it was most desirable that a general system of civil registration should now be carried into effect. It was a most important subject-important for the security of property-important to ascertain the state and condition