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Mr. CHESELDINE. We had a sitting room and a bedroom.

Mr. LISHMAN. Didn't you think that $14 was pretty low for a sitting room and a bedroom in the best hotel in town?

Mr. CHESELDINE. I thought it was low, but I had no idea it was that price.

Mr. LISHMAN. Isn't it a fact that if the amount you paid was at the rate of $14 a day and the association picked up the balance, that amounted to $45.50 a day; isn't that correct?

Mr. CHESELDINE. That would be correct if those figures were charged by the hotel. That is not the way Mr. Dixon explained it to me. He explained it to me as being something they got a reduced price on because of so many people from their group being in the hotel. Maybe he was doing that just so I would not say anything about it, I don't know.

If the hotel was getting $60, George Dixon was not telling me everything.

Mr. LISHMAN. In effect, you were getting the benefit of approximately $15.60 a day

Mr. Loss. $47.32 a day.
Mr. LISHMAN. I don't know-
Mr. Moss. $1.82 tax.

Mr. LISHMAN. Subject to that correction, isn't it a fact that the records in this letter and attachments plus your testimony show that you enjoyed a gratuity from the Motor Carrier Lawyers Association to the extent of at least $15 day for the time you were there?

Mr. CHESELDINE. I couldn't have enjoyed a $60 room under any circumstances. Since I didn't know this at all, and I am just telling you what Mr. Dixon explained to me, I haven't enjoyed it since then. I have been just ignorant.

Mr. LISHMAN. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moss. Mr. Springer?

Mr. SPRINGER. What was done, Mr. Witness, I take it, is that after you got home they sent you a bill?

Mr. CHESELDINE. I was able to get a copy of the bill, but they wouldn't accept payment for it when I left. I got a copy of it as I left.

Mr. SPRINGER. What did that show?
Mr. CHESELDINE. It showed $14 a day plus whatever else
Mr. SPRINGER. That is all it shows, is $14 a day?
Mr. CHESELDINE. Whatever else we paid.
Mr. SPRINGER. It did not show any bill at $60 ?
Mr. CHESELDINE. No, sir.
Mr. SPRINGER. Did you then go home and pay the bill?
Mr. CHIESELDINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPRINGER. Did you get the bill from the hotel or the association?
Mr. CHESELDINE. From the hotel clerk.

Mr. SPRINGER. In other words, you got it from the hotel clerk then or later?

Mr. CHESELDINE. Well, I went to the window to pay it. They said it had been transferred to the Motor Carrier Lawyers. I said, “Well, give me a copy.” So I took the copy home with me and then sent them a check for whatever was on that bill.

Mr. SPRINGER. It showed $14.50 ?

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Mr. CHESELDINE. Something like that. Mr. SPRINGER. Did you know that there was any $60 charge? Mr. CHESELDINE. No, sir. That is why I said that I didn't enjoy it. Mr. SPRINGER. When did you first learn it was a $60 room? Mr. CHESELDINE. Just this noon. Mr. SPRINGER. When you saw this letter? Mr. CHESELDINE. Yes, sir. May I ask if you are going to let me say how I handled two vouchers where I traveled at no expense to the Government?

Mr. LISHMAN. I am sure the chairman will allow that.

Mr. SPRINGER. For identification, are these the vouchers where you traveled from Washington to Detroit and returned ?

Mr. CHESELDINE. I traveled on vacation from Washington to Indianapolis, Elkhart, Ann Arbor, and into Detroit and came back after the convention. I traveled in my own car but that was on a golfing tour with this same group. Some of them rode with me. Some of them paid for the gas, so I didn't charge the Government anything. The other one that they are talking about is on the train-off case where I didn't charge anything to the Government between Albuquerque and El Paso, I assume, and in that one

Mr. Moss. Let us establish now for the record. I don't want your assumptions.

Mr. CHESELDINE. They referred to two, sir.

Mr. Moss. Let us have them identified by the staff. Which two instances of travel at no expense to the Government? Are they on this list here?

Mr. REBEIN. Yes, sir; at the bottom of the first page.

Mr. Moss. From Laredo to Austin, Tex., and to and from hearing room; Albuquerque, N. Mex., to El Paso, Tex. Those would appear to be the two instances. So it is not the Detroit matter. It is Laredo, Tex., to Austin, Tex., the 16th of July 1967, to the 27th of July 1967, and then from Albuquerque, N. Mex., to El Paso the 14th of January to the 27th of January 1968.

Mr. CHESELDINE. The Albuquerque to El Paso was on a train-off case where I rode in a New Mexico Ŝtate police car with a joint board member whom I have known for years who did participate in the train-off case. I rode with him in order to see the country better than riding on the train. Of course, I paid for his lunch at Truth or Consequences, N. Mex., where we stopped about halfway down.

The other one was a further hearing on an investigation on the Mexican border as to the exemption, whether it applied to points in Mexico, the commercial zone. And an intervenor and his wife knew that I was going to Austin to talk to a joint board member about some cases where they lived and they offered me a ride and I took it.

Mr. SPRINGER. Who did you say that was, an intervenor? Mr. CHESELDINE. An intervenor who was down there intervening as his interest might appear, a man I have known for 20 years.

Mr. SPRINGER. Why was he intervening? Mr. CHESELDINE. He was intervening to find out what was going on, to find out if there was to be a need for other carriers to try to get authority across the border.

Mr. Moss. What is his name?
Mr. SPRINGER. Can you supply it for the record ?

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Mr. CHESELDINE. Yes, sir. He is a member of an Austin law firm.

Mr. Moss. Is it a law firm that specializes in representing motor carriers ?

Mr. CHESELDINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. Moss. In other words, he was an intervenor in the case or a potential intervenor?

Mr. CHESELDINE. He was an intervenor as his interest may appear at the proceeding.

Mr. Moss. Subject to clarifying at a subsequent point in the hearing, if he determined that interest of clients were involved?

Mr. CHESELDINE. Not the clients were involved but clients may be involved at a future date if the decision went the way they did need authority. In other words, at the present time they didn't need authority.

Mr. Moss. He was a party in interest then?
Mr. CHESELDINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. Moss. The one from Albuquerque to El Paso, someone volunteered on this train discontinuance?

Mr. CHESELDINE. He was a member of the New Mexico Public Serv. ice Commission. It was in their car, a police car.

Mr. Moss. Do you have the name of that gentleman?
Mr. CHESELDINE. No, I don't have that.
Mr. Moss. Can you supply that for the record ?
Mr. CHESELDINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. Moss. The record will be held open to receive the names of the lawyer from Austin, Tex., and of the New Mexico Public Service Commission.

(See Appendix Q, p. 861.)
Mr. Moss. Are there any further questions?
Mr. SPRINGER. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moss. The subcommittee will then adjourn subject to the call of the Chair.

(Whereupon, at 1:15 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned subject to call of the Chair.)

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INQUIRY INTO CERTAIN PROCEDURES OF THE INTER

STATE COMMERCE COMMISSION

THURSDAY, JULY 9, 1970

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS,
COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN COMMERCE,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met in executive session at 10:10 a.m., pursuant to notice, in room 2323, Rayburn House Office Building, the Honorable Torbert H. Macdonald presiding (Hon. Harley O. Staggers, chairman).

Mr. MACDONALD. The hearing will come to order.

Our specific business today is to receive records and other material subpenaed from Mr. H. Neil Garson, Secretary of the ICC. The subpena dated June 29, 1970, calls for the production of Mr. Garson's original records for the period January 1, 1966, to May 31, 1970, relating, among other things, to his checking accounts, expenditures made in the performance of his official travel for the ICC and copies of his income tax returns.

It appears that Mr. Garson with reasonable diligence will not be able to furnish all of the material called for in the subpena on this return date, July 9. Accordingly, July 6, 1970, the chairman notified Mr. Garson that he would not be required to furnish the documents described in item 3 of the subpena on July 9, and that he will be advised later of the date when the subcommittee may require production of these records.

The chairman also notified Mr. Garson that with respect to items 1 and 2 of the subpena, it would be necessary for him to produce on July 9, 1970, all the originals of the material therein described for the period January 1, 1968, to May 31, 1970. The chairman further informed Mr. Garson that, so far as producing the originals of the material from January 1, 1966, to January 1, 1968 (as called for in the subpena), a decision will be made by the subcommittee for the necessity of production of same at a later date.

At this point, without objection, I should like to place in the record a copy of the subpena dated June 29, 1970, of the witness, Mr. H. Neil Garson. (The documents referred to follow :)

ORIGINAL

BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CONGRESS OF THE

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

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JAMES F. BRODER AND/OR MARK J. RAABE, SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON
To INVE.SI.I.GALL.O.N.S...HOUSE... INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN COMMERCE COMMITTEE:

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to be and appear before the SPECIAL SUB COMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS (vested under authority of H. Res. 116, 91st Cong. ) of the INTERSTATE & FOREIGN COMMERCE Committee of the House of Representatives of the L'nited States, of which the Hon.

HARLEY 0. STAGGERS

is chairman,
and to bring with him all items on the attachment herewith

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then and there to testify touching matters of inquiry committed to said Committee; and he is

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ATTACHMENT INCORPORATED IN THE INSTANT SUBPOENA DATED JUNE 29, 1970, ISSUED

BY THE HONORABLE HARLEY O. STAGGERS, CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE INTERSTATE AND
FOREIGN COMMERCE COMMITTEE AND OF ITS SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGA.
TIONS, TO H. NEIL GARSON, 1007 SOUTH BELGRADE ROAD, SILVER SPRING, MD.

1. All his individual records in his possession or subject to his control relating to his checking accounts (in any and all banks wherein he is or was a depositor) including, but not limited to, check stubs, canceled checks, reconciliation state ments, deposit receipts and monthly bank statements for the period January 1, 1966, to May 31, 1970.

2. All records, files, documents, correspondence, papers and receipts relating to expenditures made in the performance of his official travel for the Interstate Commerce Commission during the period January 1, 1966, to May 31, 1970.

3. Copies of his Federal and state income tax returns, together with supporting work papers, for the years 1966, 1967, 1968 and 1969.

Mr. MACDONALD. I should also like to place in the record at this point a copy of the chairman's letter dated July 6, 1970, addressed to Mr. Garson and informing him of the suspension of the requirement for the production of the material described in item 3, and suspension of

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