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Mr. MACDONALD. Go ahead. We have a call of the House.

Mr. Garson. All I want to say is this, that I have paid for every one of my expenses, every one of my trips that I have participated in, that my checkbooks and my checkstubs reflect payment, and that in each instance as part of my job, my job requires under its job description that I be an emissary to the practitioners, to the lawyers, to the industry and that I am supposed to take these trips in order to keep the members of the bar and the practitioners informed of the Commission's activities.

I want, also, the record to show that all my activities in connection with the Commission's work have been completely in the best interests of the Commission and also the public, that I have been engaged in a number of very important functions, one of them preparing proposed rules for discovery, which I have here, and which I have had no opportunity to submit

Mr. MACDONALD. Now, don't say that. You have every opportunity in the world to submit your statement which is now in the record. You are going to have an opportunity to testify personally and make any statement you care, or bring any documents that are relevant, and they will be seen, and you will be heard.

Mr. Garson. I also want to say that I have not taken anything, made any vouchers, to which I was not entitled to, and in this connection with one of them completely supports my view, and with respect to the Detroit trip, and I want to make this point clear, the vouchers clearly show that except for one taxicab fare, there are no other requests for reimbursement for taxicab expenses, and this will be found on a number of my vouchers where I have been—where I have tried to be-as careful as possible, simply to request reimbursement for the actual expenses.

Mr. MACDONALD. On behalf of the committee, we thank you for coming here, and we will be happy to see you again.

(Mr. Garson and Mr. Shaney felt were excused.) Mr. MacDonald. The hearing is adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.

(Whereupon, at 5:15 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned subject to call of the Chair.)

51-728 0-71---pt. 1---25

INQUIRY INTO CERTAIN PROCEDURES OF THE

INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMISSION

FRIDAY, JULY 31, 1970

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS,
COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN COMMERCE,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 2:30 p.m., pursuant to recess, in room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Torbert H. Macdonald presiding (Hon. Harley O. Staggers, chairman).

Mr. MACDONALD. The hearing will come to order.

As we all know, this session will be a continuation of the hearing held on July 29, Wednesday of this week. At that time I presented a statement setting forth the purposes behind the subcommittee's inquiry. Since that statement is already in the record, there is no need to repeat it now.

At the commencement of Wednesday's hearing, the witness, Mr. Garson, was assured that he would be given an opportunity to make a statement or present other data to the subcommittee. Unfortunately, on that date, time did not permit Mr. Garson to do so, so he is being given the opportunity this afternoon to make such statement as he cares to before this subcommittee.

Counsel does have one brief matter to take up before the witness commences his statement, however. I will ask the members to hold in abeyance any questions they may have concerning this additional matter until the conclusion of Mr. Garson's own statement. At that time, the 5-minute rule will be in effect.

Mr. Garson, will you be sworn. I know you have been many times. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God!

Mr. GARSON. I do.

Mr. MACDONALD. Mr. Garson, if you are accompanied by counsel, as I see you are, would counsel please identify himself for the record.

Mr. Ailes. Yes, sir. My name is Stephen Ailes. At the request of Mr. Ginnane of the Interstate Commerce Commission, I have attempted to advise Mr. Garson about this matter.

Mr. MACDONALD. Would you give your address. If you did, I did not hear it.

Mr. Ailes. 1250 Connecticut Avenue.
Mr. MacDONALD. Washington, D.C.!
Mr. Ailes. Yes, sir; the firm of Steptoe and Johnson.
Mr. MACDONALD. Mr. Moss.

Mr. Moss. Mr. Chairman, on July 29, I made a reservation to object to the inclusion of material in the hearing record. I now withdraw that objection so that the material may be placed in the hearing record.

Mr. MACDONALD. Without objection, so ordered.
(See Appendix R, p. 862.)
Mr. MACDON ALD. Mr. Manelli?

Mr. MANELLI. Mr. Garson, one brief matter to clarify the record from Wednesday. At that time I asked you a series of questions conconcerning your attendance at the ICC Practitioners Association Convention in Houston, Tex., and I asked you on page 358, starting at line 24 of the transcript (p. 324, this record), if you had made reimbursement to the association inasmuch as they had on that occasion paid for your hotel expenses, and you answered, beginning on line 24, that you had made reimbursement, and that you had done so to Miss Iser, the executive secretary of the association.

I will read the questions and answers that followed.

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF H. NEIL GARSON, SECRETARY, INTER

STATE COMMERCE COMMISSION; ACCOMPANIED BY STEPHEN AILES, COUNSEL

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Mr. Garson. Would you repeat which page that is on?

Mr. MANELLI. Page 358, line 24, starting on line 24 (p. 324, this record), the questions and answers were as follows, according to the note I have here:

Question. Who was the individual in the Association to uhom you presented this check!

Answer. Miss Iser. She is the Executive Secretary of the Association.

Question. The check is dated September 2. 18 that also the date you gare the check to the Association:

Answer. That is the date I gave it to her.

Question. I note on this check that while it is dated September 2, 1969 it was not cashed until February 12 of this year. Do you hare any prplanation as to why the Association would hold onto your check for this length of time before cash. ing it

Answer. I have no explanation. The check was given to her in good faith with the idea that she would go ahead and deposit it.

On page 360), starting at line 3 (p. 325, this record), there is a similar question and answer, which I do not think I will quote here, but it is to the same effect-well, I guess I will read it:

Question. Going back one more question on the Houston trip, did you here occasion to discuss with Jliss lser why they had not cushed the check until the folloicing February!

Answer. I think I did talk to her about it, and I think I asked her to put it through. I don't recall exactly.

The staff has talked with Miss Iser at the association, and the axiociation has asked that the following statement be placed in the record, which I will read:

The following statement is given to Mr. Robert L. Rebein, Staff Attorney and and Mr. Benjamin J. Smethurst, Special Assistant of the Special Subcommittee on luvestigations, committee on Interstate & Foreign commerce, 1.8. House of Representatives My name is Norma L. lser

Mr. MACDONALD. Mr. Counsel, can I interrupt at this point! Have you had an opportunity to see the statement !

Mr. GARSON. No, sir.
Mr. MACDONALD. All right.
Mr. MANELLI (reading):

My name is Norma L. Iser and I am Executive Secretary of the Association of Interstate Commerce Commission Practitioners, which Association has a membership of approximately 3,400 attorneys and persons admitted to practice before the Interstate Commerce Commission and, as such, is the Commission's Bar.

The Association holds annual meetings at different cities throughout the continental United States, at which conferences various speakers are invited to participate either as an individual speaker, a member of a panel, or a member of a workshop.

The Association's policy as to its speakers and panel members is to furnish the hotel with a list of its invited participants with instructions to the hotel that in the event any person listed thereon does not pay his hotel bill, the hotel is authorized to transfer such charges to the account of the Association.

The Association's 1969 meeting was held at the Warwick Hotel in Houston, Texas on June 25, 26, and 27. The Secretary of the Interstate Commerce Commission, Mr. H. Neil Garson, was invited to appear before the meeting and deliver an address on the subject "ICC Publications." Mr. Garson accepted this invitation and delivered his address at the Friday morning business session.

Following the completion of the meeting and my return to Washington, I received an itemized bill from the Warwick Hotel which included the charges incurred by H. Neil Garson in the total amount of $99.36.

Subsequent thereto on September 2, 1969, Mr. Garson visited me in my office and presented me with a round-figured personal check of approximately $80 or $85, with the statement that “This should cover my Warwick hotel bill", and requested that I hold the check in the Association's files and not put it through the bank for payment. At this time Mr. Garson indicated to me that there was an investigation in progress relating to travel vouchers of Commission personnel.

C'pon checking the records and consulting with the Association's Treasurer, it was determined that a request should be made of Mr. Garson for the exact amount of his hotel bill which I did on the same day. I returned the roundfigured check to him and was given another personal check in the exact amount of $99.36 on the same day, September 2, 1969. He repeated his request that I told the check in the Association's files and not put it through the bank for ayment. Thereafter, on more than one occasion. Mr. Garson inquired of me 8 to whether or not I was still holding his check of September 2. Upon being dvised that I was, he asked me to continue to hold the same.

In a telephone conversation with Mr. Garson on February 11, 1970, it develped that I had been visited in early December by Messrs. Rebein and Smethurst. Mr. Garson inquired as to whether or not these gentlemen had reviewed nr records and I advised him that they had not. Thereafter, I reminded Mr. arson that we were still holding his check and suggested to him that the check tould be deposited for payment to which suggestion he agreed. Accordingly, I ive the check to our bookkeeper who included it with our deposits of that date d a credit for this reimbursement was entered on our records. The statement is signed by Norma L. Iser, and witnessed by Robert Rebein and Benjamin M. Smethurst. That concludes the statement, and I won't ask you any questions w about it, Mr. Garson, except to point out that it does contradict a testimony you gave on Wednesday, and I suggest you might want say a few words about that when you make your statement. I do have just two or three questions also having to do with the (Practitioners Association. n addition to the trip to Houston, which is the one we have just n talking about here, you also attended, did you not, the associa2's conferences held in Boston in 1966, and in San Francisco in 1967. Ir. Garson. Yes. [r. MANELLI. Is that correct?

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