carry with them the weight attached to the old ones,persons who were prevented from entering into the old Universities would still be deprived of those distinctions to which they were entitled, although they might be able to obtain all the academical honours which could be con

ferred by the new. The right hon. Baronet and the right

hon. the President of the Board of Trade had referred to what had passed on this subject before the Privy Council. He (Lord John Russell) had been present at that Council, and he had heard with attention the arguments of his hon. and learned Friend near him (Dr. Lushington), as well as the hon. and learned Gentleman who had spoken on the part of the ancient Universities. The great objection appeared to him, and he believed all the Council thought so, to be not so much on the part of the two Universities as on the part of the medical schools of London, and he thought that the other schools of London would be entitled to confer medical degrees, if that power was given to the University of London. The Member for Bridport had said, that it would not be desirable to give the London University the power of conferring medical degrees, and the objection which he (Lord John Russell) had just stated was the principal ground of the proposed restriction. On the whole, the matter appeared to be of so much importance, that the Council did not come to an immediate decision. But he was surprised that the right hon. Baronet should have been ignorant of the fact, and should have believed that the Council had done nothing on the subject. Why, Lord Brougham had been employed almost constantly on the subject. A fortnight did not pass without his (Lord John Russell) receiving a communication from his noble and learned Friend on the subject of granting a Charter to the University of London, and how it could be reconciled with other institutions. During the noble and learned Lord's journey into Scotland, he

had been very much employed on this subject, and the noble and learned Lord had sent him a voluminous paper on the question. It was not a matter of ridicule or of scorn that a person of high legal station should occupy himself in advancing literature and science. He could say of Lord Brougham, that whatever were his political or legal pursuits, he (Lord John Russell) never knew a time when that noble and learned Lord did not evince the greatest anxiety for, and was not ready to devote a large portion of his time to, the advancement of science and of art. Then it came to this, that the late Government, and Lord Brougham especially, had been anxiously occupied in considering, first, whether it was possible to obtain the consent of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge to Protestant Dissenters taking degrees in those Universities; secondly, if that failed, whether a charter should be given to the London University, to enable Protestant Dissenters to take degrees therein; and thirdly, whether any other large and combined plan could be devised which should extend to the London University and other schools; and he had not heard from the right hon. Baronet that there was any disposition on the part of Government to pledge itself to introduce a measure which would afford to Protestant Dissenters a prospect of obtaining the literary honours they naturally coveted. He might mention many names of men eminent for learning, though not endowed with rich pluralities, who were gratified by literary honours; he would only mention the name of one such, Dr. Lardner, who, at the end of his life, received a degree from a Scotch University, and acknowledged that it could not but be agreeable to literary men, whatever their religious tenets, to receive an honour of that kind. Protestant Dissenters who dedicated their talents to the fame of their country, and to the promotion of its literature, might, indeed, receive an honour from Scotland; but there should be a

place in England where they might obtain literary honours, although they could not sign the articles of the Church of England. He admitted that there might be some objections to the charter of 1831, and he wished the hon. Member for Truro had omitted some of his observations on it; but still, having no hope afforded him by the right hon. Baronet that Government would adopt any measure on the subject, and having to choose between two alternatives, he should concur in the motion of the hon. Member.

CHURCH ESTABLISHMENT (IRELAND).

Friday, March 27, 1835.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, that the right hon. Baronet the Chancellor of the Exchequer having asked him the other day as to whether he would give him an outline of the Motion which he (Lord John Russell) meant to make on Monday next, the answer which he would then make was, that he was not prepared to pledge himself to any particular words, or not to vary the terms in which he declared his intention to move; but his present intention was, to move that the House should resolve itself into a Committee, for the purpose of taking into consideration the expediency of applying any of the surplus revenues of the Church of Ireland not required for the spiritual care of the Members of that Church, to the religious and moral instruction of all classes of the community.

CHURCH OF IRELAND.

Monday, March 30, 1835.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL:- I rise fully sensible of the arduous task I have undertaken; but, although I am well aware both of the difficulty of that task, and of the re

sponsibility I incur, yet the confidence I feel in the nature of the question I am to bring forward diminishes much of my anxiety, because I cannot but think that the clearness of the proposition I shall submit will compensate for any obscurity in the arguments I may use to enforce it. I am confident that the truth and justice of the cause will prevail though the weakness and incompetence of the advocate should be manifest. With no further preface, therefore, I shall enter upon the consideration of the subject of the Church of Ireland; and in doing so let me advert, in the first instance, to a Motion made on April 22, in the last year. The hon. Member for the City of Dublin then introduced a Motion for a Committee to inquire into the means by which the Union with Ireland had been effected, and as to the expediency of continuing it. The hon. Member was met by an Amendment in the form of an address to the Crown, which was carried by a large majority, and in the minority appeared only one Member for England, and no Member for Scotland. The answer to the Motion of the hon. and learned Member, therefore, was given by the Representatives of England and Scotland, supported by a great part of those from Ireland. The address was in these terms:- We, your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Commons, in Parliament assembled, feel it our duty humbly to approach your Majesty's Throne, to record, in the most solemn manner, our fixed determination to maintain unimpaired and undisturbed the Legislative Union between Great Britain and Ireland, which we consider to be essential to the strength and stability of the empire, to the continuance of the connexion between the two countries, and to the peace, and security, and happiness, of all classes of your Majesty's subjects. We feel this, our determination, to be as much justified by our views of the general interests of the State, as by our conviction that to no other portion

of your Majesty's subjects is the maintenance of the Legislative Union more important than to the inhabitants of Ireland themselves. We humbly represent to your Majesty, that the Imperial Parliament have taken the affairs of Ireland into their most serious consideration, and that various salutary laws have been enacted, since the Union, for the advancement of the most important interests of Ireland, and of the empire at large. In expressing to your Majesty our Resolution to maintain the Legislative Union inviolate, we humbly beg leave to assure your Majesty, that we shall persevere in applying our best attention to the removal of all just causes of complaint, and to the promotion of all well-considered measures of improvement.'-This Address was carried by the House to the foot of the Throne, and his Majesty was pleased to return an answer in which he stated that he should be 'at all times anxious to afford his best assistance in removing all just causes of complaint, and in sanctioning all well-considered measures of improvement.' This was the answer of his Majesty to the claim in the petitions of a large portion of the people of Ireland, enforced by a Member of this House, in whom they had the greatest confidence, and who undoubtedly possessed abilities to place his arguments in the best and strongest point of view. In pursuance of this answer which was adopted by the House of Lords, and thereby became, as it were, a solemn compact between the Parliament of the United Kingdom and the people, given by the King, received by the Commons, and approved by the Lords, I am come before you to-day to represent to you what I consider a just cause of complaint' by the people of Ireland, and to induce you if I can to take a step to obtain a well-considered measure of improvement.' My complaint is that nothing of that sort has yet been done or attempted, and I have referred to this discussion, not only on account of