subject had occupied the attention of the Government, and his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had devoted much time to devising a plan by which Protestant Dissenters, as well as all other persons, would be enabled to obtain their degrees, and that standing to which they were entitled, but which were now limited to those who studied at Oxford and Cambridge. This plan his right hon. Friend would shortly state to the House. Another matter of complaint was church-rates. Before, however, adverting to this, he would allude to the complaints that had been made, that ministers of Dissenting chapels were not allowed to bury deceased members of their congregations in the burying-grounds of the Church of England. He was not prepared to propose anything on this point; but he would venture to say to those Protestant Dissenters who might be prepared to petition the House on the subject, that the great object all should have in view was, the promotion of religious peace; and that while they left the Church of England in the full enjoyment of the rights which it ought to possess, the Protestant Dissenters should be placed in such a position as to feel themselves perfectly free and equal in all civil concerns, and that this matter should not be an occasion of jarring or quarrelling between themselves and the members of the Church. He was sorry to hear that there were some among the Protestant Dissenters, who stated that they preferred going on with the contest between themselves and the Church on this point, as well as respecting church-rates, rather than the Legislature should interpose to promote peace and harmony. Nothing in his opinion could be more desirable than putting an end to those contests which unhappily subsisted. It was the duty of the Legislature to establish such a system of laws that those feelings of alienation which unhappily existed between members of the Church and Dissenters should be

lessened as much as possible. At the same time both parties should yield to a mutual feeling of good will, and one party ought to feel that it possessed nothing which could be considered an injury to the other. If this state of things was ever established, he should be able to look with confidence to the settlement of the question of burying Dissenters by their ministers in the churchyards. He was sure if they introduced a measure for this purpose at present, and gave Protestant Dissenters, at any time, and under any circumstances, the right of going into churchyards for the purpose of performing any religious ceremonies they pleased, against the wish of the clergyman, so far from promoting harmony, they would widen the breach which now existed. The clergy would feel that it was an unnecessary and unjust interference with them, and it would excite painful feelings in their minds, to see ceremonies performed in the churchyards, against which they entertained serious and conscientious objections. If, however, those feelings of harmony and goodwill were produced, he had no doubt that this might be made a matter of compromise between the clergy and the ministers of the Dissenters. A clergyman living in harmony in his parish, and having feelings of goodwill to all classes of his parishioners, might be induced to allow a funeral ceremony to be performed by a Dissenting minister in whom he had confidence, and with whose piety and devotion he was satisfied, and from whom he did not anticipate anything obnoxious or insulting to his feelings. The subject of church-rates would form a matter of consideration and debate for another day; and he trusted that the end of these measures would be to establish firm peace between all religious parties in this country, and to do away those religious heats which now prevailed; and thus that a spirit of religious harmony would be engendered, in which respect he was sorry to say that England was far behind other

countries. In commerce, in wealth, in industry, and, in some respects, in public instruction, there were some nations far inferior to us, but, in respect of religious tolerance and harmony, they were far before us. The noble Lord concluded with moving for leave to bring in a Bill to establish a general civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths in England and Wales.

Mr. O'Connell rejoiced at the extent of the measure, as regarded the marriages of Protestant Dissenters; but he wished to know whether the measure extended to Roman Catholics?

LORD JOHN RUSSELL replied, that in England and Wales the provisions would extend to Roman Catholics.

ORANGE LODGES.

February 23, 1836.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL hoped that the House would indulge him a few moments after the appeal made to him by his noble Friend. He assured the House, that after the statement of the hon. and gallant Colonel, and of his noble Friend who had just sat down, he felt great pain in being obliged to state that he had heard nothing in the able statements of both which could induce him to alter the resolution in the way they had suggested. In saying this, he hoped he should be understood as not unwilling so to frame the resolution as to meet the wishes of the hon. and gallant Colonel, and of others who felt sensitively on this subject, if he could do so without departing from that which he considered his duty on the present occasion. It did appear to him, after what had occurred last year, that a necessity had arisen for putting an end to all secret associations, and that the House was bound to

declare its opinion whether those societies were injurious or otherwise to the public tranquillity. He did not think, therefore, that the House would meet the case fairly unless it inserted in the resolution the words 'Orange Lodges.' It was beyond doubt that all the previous debate had referred to those societies, but, after what had occurred, and after mentioning other societies in general, it was their duty to mention these in particular; and he owned that he did not see why hon. Gentlemen should think that the use of those words implied a stigma on them; there was no opinion pronounced as to the legality of those societies -there was nothing more said than that these as well as other secret societies should receive the disapprobation of the Crown. Under these circumstances, he regretted his inability to comply with the suggestion of his noble Friend.

TITHES AND CHURCH (IRELAND).

June 1, 1836.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL: I beg, Sir, to remind the House that I took occasion, before my noble Friend commenced, to propose to him that he should have an opportunity, if he thought fit, to bring in any Bill he might have prepared on the subject to which the speech he has just concluded referred. It was the choice of my noble Friend not to accept the proposal. I find no fault with him for taking that course, but I think, certainly, that I am at liberty to draw this inference from his having declined my proposal -namely, that my noble Friend, under another name, intends to give a strenuous opposition to the second reading of this Bill. If my noble Friend had asked to introduce a Bill upon this subject, it was in his power to have done so

either at some time before the measure of my noble Friend, the Secretary for Ireland, was introduced, or after the motion for its introduction had been made, or in some subsequent stage of the measure. It is, therefore, on the

principle of our Bill, to which my noble Friend declares, that he never will consent, that he rests the issue of this question. I am glad to find that my noble Friend does not deny that this is the real question before the House. I am glad to find, that he does not deny, that the real question is, whether the principle of this Bill shall or shall not be adopted. Now, Sir, I am as willing as my noble Friend to appeal to the reason and moderation of the people of England upon this subject. It is to the reason and moderation of the people of England that I appeal-not on the details, not on the regulations, but on the principle on which this Bill is founded. Sir, although my noble Friend, at the commencement of his speech, appealed to the reason and moderation of the people of England, I cannot forget, that he afterwards appealed from them to the feelings of this House, as a House of Gentlemen. True, Sir, it is a House of Gentlemen, but I hope it is something more; I hope it is a House representing popular feelings and popular interests. I hope it is a House representing (as it is the duty of Members of this House to do), not particular and local bodies of men, but representing, as Mr. Burke stated he considered himself bound to do, the whole people of this empire, including among them that outlawed portion of the people-the six millions of Roman Catholics in Ireland. Sir, my noble Friend, in the whole course of his speech, although he adverted to all the considerations, or very nearly all the considerations, connected with this Bill, totally omitted one most important consideration-namely, the consideration and concern which this House ought to pay to the interests of three-fourths of the people of Ireland. My noble Friend told us that we