ther, with but one intereft animating the whole? Can they then hefitate, if they are fincere to combine their fate with ours? Are we to give them every thing, and will they rifk for us nothing? I entertain no fuch fentiment of them. I cannot believe of them any thing so selfish and unworthy. Their advocates fay, let them get franchise, and they will afterwards co-operate with the proteftants, in obtaining reform. Admit they will, but why fhould our caufe be the lacquey walking after theirs, or why thould they not go arm in arm together? I do not afk precedence for the proteftant or the diffenter, neither do I wish to give precedence to the catholic before them both. The catholics have been affifted on this occafion by many proteftants and many diffenters, will then the catholics neglecting their proteftant and diffenting auxiliaries, infift on a separate treaty for themselves, at this critical juncture? But to whom am I addreffing myfelf? Not to a catholic but a proteftant houfe of commons, and therefore though it might be a prudent though not a generous policy in the catholics to prefer the caufe of the proteftants to theirs, yet I truft they will not fubmit to do fo. See now what you gain by one combination of these measures. Should a minifter fay, let us divide the people of Ireland. Let us gratify a part and disappoint a part, by uniting the meafures you defeat this ruinous policy. You force him either to reject all, which he dare not, or to admit all, and thus all parties fucceed. You join the reform with a measure already recommeded from the throne, and thereby obtain for it a paffport at the throne. You conciliate the minds of many proteftants to the catholic franchise by thus embodying it with an act in favour of their own freedom; and you at once excite the whole people of Ireland from its fhores to its center in à univerfal demand for this great charter of pubfic liberty.

I would

I would therefore begin, by giving but a limited franchife to the catholics; and by making but a moderate reform; and I would unite these measures. A fudden communication of power to a great body of people is never wife. Changes in an ancient conftitution ought to be gradual. The example of France, fhould be an awful admonition to us. Let us at this anomalous era fecure as much benefit for our country as we can, but let us encounter as little danger. If a cloud fraught with lightnings is moving over our heads, what ought we to do? ought to draw off filenty and imperceptibly if we can, and not excite a fudden explosion.

of men.

We

Again, by uniting these measures let no man think that it is my defign thereby to defeat catholic franchife. Thofe who know me, know that I am incapable of combating any measure in an infidious and finifter way; whatever I oppose I have always, and will always, oppofe openly. I fear no man or body Whatever I think can be fafely granted to the catholics, I will grant: whatever I think cannot, I will endeavour to withhold, and I will fay fo. If the illiberal reprobation of that body of men, towards whom my heart has never cherished an illiberal fentiment, was to follow, I fhould regret it, yet would I fpeak, and I would act in the manner I thought right. If I did not, I fhould not think myself worthy to fit among you: I am fatisfied that you would defpife me; that the catholics ought at least to defpife me; and what would be worfe, and to my mind infupportable, I fhould defpife myself. But I fear not the cenfure of the catholics.

Every refpectable and candid man among them, at least when the fever of the prefent inftant is B b

past,

paft, will refpect me for fpeaking my fentiments boldly, and as for those who are not refpectable and candid, I am not anxious about their efteem. Truth and reafon are my only guides, and I would not fwerve from thefe, though the wealth of the two hemifpheres was to reward me for voting on one fide, and death awaited me at your threshold for voting on the other.

The reafon Í fhould combine these measures is not to defeat catholic franchife, but to fecure parliamentary reform. Suppose the reform fhould pass this houfe, are you in no danger of lofing it after? Have you never loft a measure after it had paffed this houfe? What became of the penfion-bill? Did it not pass here, and yet did it ever pass into a law? What became of the barrenland bill? What became of the mutiny bill? The mutiny bill was paffed as a kind of charter for your freedom, and was it not converted into the very reverfe? There is now no fuch power in England as altering your bills, but there is of fuppreffing bills. Witnefs the cordage bill; did it not pals both our houses, yet who has ever heard of it fince? If the Reform paffes this houfe, can you be fure that it will pass the other houfe? Or if it does, can you be fure that it will not expire on the fteps of the throne? That it will not be trodden under foot by a dark and clandeftine negative; (one of the anomalies of our conflitution); though no viceroy might be prevailed upon to give it a negative publicly and openly.

The heart of the catholics is now in the franchise, I would therefore put it into the body of the reform; and make the minifter feel how it palpitated for fuccefs, that he might tremble at its fruftration. My heart is in the meafure too, and if every impulfe of

my

my reafon did not tell me it was wife, I fhould not prefs it upon you. Credulity has always been the bane of Ireland. Generous and fanguine, we take the first glimpse of fuccefs for the fober light of certainty. A reform is no fooner named, than every eye fees it enrolled. But if the friends of it are fanguine, the foes of it are cold and machinating, and you may be baffled at the very inftant, that you are rapt in vifions of fuccefs. I therefore exhort you, to neglect no human means of ftrengthening it, move it difcreetly but rapidly forward. Put catholic franchise into its bofom; and let it move on to the lords and to the throne, followed by the votive acclamations of the whole people.

Hon. D. Browne.-I do not rife to answer the multiplicity of matter the hon. member has, on the catholic bill ftated to the house. The whole, Sir, is very finely confused, and very alarming, and really above my recollection or powers of anfwering: but I fhall make a fhort obfervation on the only part of it that interests me, the evils with which the hon. member has threatened parliament, if they fhall, purfuant to the bill of the minifter, grant an unlimited franchise to the catholics, and fortunately there was an experience in the country that would be the beft reply to him. In the reign of Elizabeth, and afterwards of Charles 2d, when the catholics had both the property and power of the kingdom; were electors and members of your parliament; fevere penal laws paffed against them, fuch was the afcendancy of proteftant government and connection with a proteftant country. In the reign of William, when they were members of parliament, and electors of parliament, they were by laws difarmed and deprived of many rights. In the reign of Anne, by acts of the 2d and 8th of that reign, a parliament elected by Roman catholics, paffed a code of laws, profcribing abfolutely the whole catholic people

Bb 2

people. Penalties that I do not now recollect were confirmed by acts of parliament of George the firft, alfo elected by Roman catholics. And laftly, this very root of property that is to produce a ftem to make us all papifts, in the reign of George the 2d, produced a ftem of reprefentation that deftroyed the root itself.

By an act of the firft of George the 2d, the power of voting at elections was taken from catholics, which I think is fome proof that it had not at least power to preferve itself. I truft thofe facts will be fome kind of alleviation of the hon. member's fears on the fubject of the bill paffing into a law. Every penal law that has been enacted against catholics was paffed by parliaments elected by catholics. Property and power, let me affure the hon. member, has, and ever would have material controuling power.

Major Doyle.-I fhall defer debating the bill until the proper ftage for difcuffing its merits; but I merely rife to give notice, that as I think it fell fhort of what was due to the acknowledged loyalty of the catholics, I intend to introduce a claufe or claufes, which fhall tend more fully to gratify the wifhes of that body, and at the fame time obviate the fears or fuppofed fears of thofe, who from illfounded apprehenfions are adverfe to their emancipation. I call upon the right hon. fecretary, for the fake of his character as a public man, to refift the advice of the hon. baronet, that of implicating the catholic queftion with that of reform, as the one muft neceffarily injure materially the other.

I hope, Sir, the hon. member was not founded in fuppofing the catholics owed the prefent favourable fentiments towards them, merely to the CRISIS, and not to their peaceable and loyal conduct; but if it were fo, the linking them to the reform muft prove ruinous to their caufe, for it was known that a length of time

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