good many houses that are being financed by the Government for private owners. We just completed a survey of that yesterday.

Mr. BISHOP. In other words, the F. H. A. and other local financing groups would have no trouble in making houses available?

Mr. BAKER. None whatever.

Mr. BOYKIN. Jennings Randolph has told us so much about this particular spot and he has always talked about the same people and think he is right. I might add that he has an affection for you and I think he is one of the best Congressmen you have.

I think that is all the questions we want to ask.

Mr. RANDOLPH.. You will be sure to file your brief before you leave? Mr. BAKER. Yes.

(The brief above referred to is attached to the hearing.)

Mr. BOYKIN. Does Mr. Brown wish to comment on this proposition?

Mr. BROWN. I think Mr. Baker has covered it very satisfactorily. Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Fowler, have you anything to say?

Mr. FOWLER. Nothing further.

Mr. RANDOLPH. Dr. Widney, have you any comments to make? Dr. WIDNEY. No.

Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speicher, have you any comments?

Mr. SPEICHER. I think if possible to assist the committee we might emphasize that we are in the center of the United States Monongahela National Forest and just recently they promised, and expressed the opinion that you would expand their forest activities.

Mr. BOYKIN. I suggest to you gentlemen if you have any other data available that you get it handy so that if an inspector comes to make an investigation you people can sit down and tell the story because from the conversation we have had with you here I think you want to get all your material ready so that your place can be given consideration if decentralization takes place.

Mr. RANDOLPH. I think this committee is rather favorable as a whole to this realization that where there are communities that can take care of decentralized outfits they should be given that opportunity rather than take activities out of Washington and put them in other crowded cities.

Mr. BISHOP. And as a member of this committee I do not endorse decentralizing industry or Government activity to other congested cities.

Mr. BOYKIN. I have been through that situation several times and I am very much impressed because what you propose will save the Government money and help the people back there. When you get the people back home on pay rolls you will have something that a lot of other places do not have that are getting these plants and if plants were put at Elkins they would save the Government a lot of money. (We will stand adjourned to meet at the call of the chairman.) (Thereupon, at 11:25 a. m., the committee adjourned, to meet at the call of the chairman.)

TO TRANSFER FROM THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA DEPARTMENTS, OR BUREAUS THEREOF, AND INDEPENDENT AGENCIES TO OTHER LOCALITIES

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 4, 1941

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND GROUNDS,

Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock, a. m. the Honorable LeRoy D. Downs presiding.

WAGE AND HOUR DIVISION

Mr. Downs. The subcommittee will come to order. We will take up now the Wage and Hour Division.

STATEMENT OF BAIRD SNYDER,

DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR,

WAGE AND HOUR DIVISION

Mr. SNYDER. Gentlemen, during the interim between yesterday and today I dictated a statement which I think will tell you what you want to know about the Wage and Hour Division. I suggest I read it, and then you can ask any questions you may want.

Mr. Downs. All right; sir.

Mr. SNYDER. On May 26, 1941, when the questionnaire for report on House Concurrent Resolution 36, from the Wage and Hour Division was presented, there were on duty in the Division a total of 2,170 personnel of all grades. Of this total 556, or 24 percent of the total personnel, were on duty in the Department in Washington. One thousand six hundred and fourteen personnel, or 76 percent of the total, were on duty in the field offices.

The number of personnel on duty on the last pay-roll date, November 30, was as follows: Total, all grades, 1,996; on duty in Washington, 461; on duty in the field 1,535, or approximately the same percentage distribution as to Washington and the field, that is, about 25.75, as was presented in

The 1943 budget, as approved by the Budget Bureau, provides for a total personnel of 2,029, of which 479, or 24 percent, are requested for duty in Washington, and 1,560, or 76 percent, are requested for duty in the field. Thus, the figure requested for next year is a reduction of 1 percent in the percentage of personnel already resident in Washington.

The Division now occupies 43,889 square feet of space in the Labor Department Building in Washington for personnel, and 3,591 squarefeet storage space in the Darby Building in Washington.

As to the space occupied by the Division in Washington, it is divided between the Administrator's office, in which there are 15 persons requested for 1943, and which occupies 2,809 square feet of space; the Field Operations Branch, the function of which is to review all instruction case files, and to maintain liaison between the Administrator's office and the field offices, totals 65 persons, and occupies 5,801 square feet of space. The Information Branch, whose function. is to see that employers and employees know what is expected of them by the wages-and-hours law, totals 26 persons, and occupies 2,949 square feet of space. The Industry Committee Branch, the function of which is to convene committees composed equally of public, employer and employee representatives, for the purpose of recommending to the Administrator a raise in the wage rate above the statutory minimum if such increased wage will not create unemployment, occupies 1,620 square feet and totals 16 persons.

The Hearings Branch composed of 59 people, the function of which is to hold hearings on the seasonal exemptions, agricultural exemptions, the granting of learner certificates, the supervision of granting of handicapped workers' certificates, and to hold other hearings which the Administrator may designate for purposes of the act, occupies 5,345 square feet. The Research and Statistics Branch composed of 88 people, the function of which is to provide economic information to the industry committees or to the administrator and to maintain operating statistics reflecting the quality and quantity of the production of the field staff in enforcement activities, occupies 6,925 square feet. The Business Management Branch, composed of 224 people, the function of which is to facilitate the operations of the Division, with fiscal, personnel, clerical, administrative, and stenographic services for Washington and the field, occupies 18,340 square feet.

As to the feasibility of decentralizing any of the personnel above enumerated in the several branches, the Division has, since October of 1939, continuously decentralized every function which in our opinion can properly be decentralized.

The services of the Research and Statistics Branch cannot well be rendered to the Industry Committee Branch or to the Administrator if the Research and Statistics Branch is distant from the two. Furthermore, this Branch has services rendered to it by the Bureau of Labor Statistics and it would be difficult for a mutual understanding of the services to be rendered to be reached if the Branch were distant from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

In the compilation and interpretation of operating statistics there is much evaluation to be obtained by consultation with the operations group and the Administrator's office, thus it would seem not feasible to decentralize this Branch.

Likewise, the Industry Committee Branch is such an integral part of the Administrator since it prepares action which only he may take under the statute, it would seem not feasible to divorce it either from him or from the Research group.

The Information Branch is to as great a degree as possible now decentralized, there being on duty nine field information men. The enforcement records and the information which this Branch disseminates are obtained almost wholly either from the information. men who are in the field who are in contact with the field offices, or

from the Administrator's office, or from one of the staff branches in Washington. The space occupied by this Branch is small at any rate. The Hearings Branch functions in such a way that the representatives of industry centrally located in Washington and representatives of labor also so located are accustomed to having close contact with the Branch in representing to it the views of the two interests involved. It is very unlikely that the Branch could function with the great multiplicity of the representatives of the individual state or other geographical groups in labor or industry inasmuch as the opinions of both sides are fairly well crystalized by their representatives in Washington. Furthermore the activities of this Branch require consultation with the Administrator and the other staff branches, and it is therefore deemed unfeasible to decentralize the Hearings Branch.

The Office of the Business Manager facilitates the entire Division, including the field, in fiscal matters, including pay roll, the auditing of vouchers, budget and organization, rental of space, purchase of supplies, initiating the enrollment of personnel, providing stenographic, stenographic and reporting services, operating the central mails and files, indexing and digesting of regulations, and in general carrying out the housekeeping functions of the Division.

The field also has such facilitating personnel and to such degree as it is deemed wise, the housekeeping function has been delegated to field offices. Only those functions have been retained in Washington which require the supervision of experienced personnel with a full knowledge of the practices of the General Accounting Office, the Bureau of the Budget, and other agencies having to do with the housekeeping functions of the Government.

The Administrator therefore feels that he has already to the fullest degree which in his judgment is proper decentralized the personnel of the Wage and Hour Division and therefore submits to the committee that it appears impossible for the Wage and Hour Division to vacate additional space in Washington. ·

Mr. Downs. So, in the opinion of the Administrator it would not be feasible to move the Wage and Hour Division out of Washington. Mr. SNYDER. I had not considered moving the whole bureau. You could possibly do that. Our idea is you cannot possibly split up that part of the bureau now in Washington. Each time we find a function can be further decentralized, we immediately do it. In the Hearings Branch they used to issue handicapped certificates here in Washington, and we decentralized that to the field. Each time we find another new thing the field offices can do we put it out there.

Mr. Downs. I mean, would it be possible for the bureau to operate with headquarters in New York, for instance, as well as it does in Washington?

Mr. SNYDER. I suppose if the whole bureau were moved it could. There would be some inconvenience, but there would not be anything insurmountable. It would be out of contact with the Department of Labor, and, after all, we are part of the Department of Labor.

Mr. Downs. Would it increase the operating cost to move to, say, New York?

Mr. SNYDER. By the amount we would have to pay for rent for, roughly, 50,000 square feet of space, and also by the extra amount of telephonic and other contact we would have to have with the Department, and a good deal of additional travel for that purpose.

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