Secretary HARRIMAN. I will be very glad to provide it. (The statement referred to is as follows:)

United States exports of agricultural machinery, January to September 1947 [Value in thousands of dollars]

United States exports of iron and steel-mill products and of casing and oil-line pipe, annual 1946, and January to September 1947

Source: Special Programs Division, Areas Branch, Office of International Trade, Department of Com merce, December 1947.

Senator WATKINS. With reference to the countries in the American continents.

Secretary HARRIMAN. Yes.

Senator WATKINS. Now, I asked you the other day about steel being shipped outside of the United States for oil pipe lines. Do you have any figures now as to how steel has been shipped recently or within the last 2 years to any other countries outside of the United States?

Secretary HARRIMAN. Well, our exports of steel are running about at the rate of 500,000 tons a month; that is the allocation which was made, and that is exclusive of Canada.

Senator WATKINS. Of what? Of Canada?

Secretary HARRIMAN. We do not control the exports to Canada. That tonnage, that quota, is divided between different countries. I have got them in dollar values, not in tonnages.

Senator WATKINS. That would be slightly misleading because of the higher prices, would it not?

Secretary HARRIMAN. It would be in some cases; it would be misleading.

Senator WATKINS. I would prefer to have it in tonnages, if it can be supplied.

Secretary HARRIMAN. Yes; we certainly can supply it, Senator. Senator WATKINS. Do you have any figures in your Department which would show the need for the steel in the oil and gasoline industry of the United States?

Secretary HARRIMAN. We have the figures as to what the oil and gasoline industry is using this year; I think, if I am right, about 3 million tons a year. 1946 was 1,950,000 tons. I rather recall the figures

that indicate it is over 2 millions this year. 1947 is higher, Mr. McCoy says, and my recollection is that it was over 2 million tons.

Senator WATKINS. If you were given the power to allocate steel now, do you have in mind how much more would be required by the industries just mentioned?

Secretary HARRIMAN. No, I have no way to judge that. There has been no knowledge as to what the over-all requirements might be, and all we can do is to collect the figures as to where it goes.

Senator WATKINS. With respect to getting additional powers to make allocations, there certainly are some studies made as to what would be needed in that field before you get the powers that you ask for.

Secretary HARRIMAN. I do not think we have an estimate of what the oil and gas people would like.

Senator WATKINS. Will you supply it?

Secretary Harriman. Yes, we will be glad to supply it. (The matter referred to is as follows:)

STEEL NEEDS OF THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY

This unprecedented demand for petroleum means a greater need for additional lls, more recycling plants, pipe lines, pump stations, refineries, storage facilities, kers, barges, tank cars, and tank trucks. Likewise, the great demand for tural gas means expanded pipe lines and more pump stations.

All these operations and installations require steel, not only in the form of e and tube, but also in many other forms and shapes: structural shapes for int construction, plates for tanks, many types of steel for machinery, sheets drums, etc. Based on shipments reported by the American Iron and Steel stitute, the domestic petroleum and natural gas industry will receive about million tons in 1947. This is the highest on record for any year since 1940, en data first became available on a basis comparable with today's figures. also represents, for the same period, the highest proportion of total steel product ipments that has gone to this industry, namely, 4.8 percent. Further indeminable quantities will be used in containers, refining equipment, and for her related purposes. The industry has thus slightly improved its position ative to all other consumers, over recent years.

1 Estimated by Department of Commerce on basis of 9 months' figures. Includes pipe lines.

Not shown separately; pipe lines included in shipments directly to industry.

Of the 3 million tons of steel received by this industry, 40 percent will go irectly into construction, including refinery plant buildings, pipe lines, pumping nd compressing stations, and natural gas pumping stations. The other 60 percent will be divided equally between shipments directly to the industry for drilling use nd to steel jobbers for the oil and gas industry.

Tubular products are the most important single type consumed by the industry, making up three-fourths of the total. The industry is furthermore the chief onsumer of pipe and tubes, taking 37 percent of the total produced. Tubular products are, generally, in the tightest supply position of all steel items, with he exception of the flat rolled products. In this respect its adequate supply is of prime importance to the petroleum and gas industry.

The only specific demand estimates are for large diameter natural gas and oil pipe lines (16 inch and larger). Against a backlog of almost 5 million tons, maxinum annual productive capacity is 1.1 million tons of which only about 700,000 o 800,000 tons will be produced because of the lack of steel billets and plates. Senator WATKINS. The reason I am asking these questions is that before the National Resources Committee's hearing held last June or July there was strong testimony before that committee that the threatened gasoline shortage or oil shortage of the United States could

be easily taken care of if they had sufficient steel pipe and oth products of steel that are needed in the development of new fields expansion of old fields, and in the transportation of oil and oil produc to various parts of the United States.

It seems to me it ought to be studied, the whole matter ought to studied, in relation to what we are shipping abroad, the whole matt of steel, particularly steel pipe which is needed in our own country. Secretary HARRIMAN. There has been a study made as it relates specific projects abroad. Oil is a world commodity item, and t world supply affects our domestic supply as well, so that oil must considered on a world basis rather than purely domestic basis.

We are importers of oil. We used to be, before the war, substanti exporters. Now, in the current quarter we are, as I understand i importing more than we are exporting, and that we will become i creasingly dependent upon world supply.

Senator WATKINS. Can you furnish the committee, or give the con mittee now, the amount of steel, the tonnage of steel, which ha actually gone out in the form of oil steel pipe?

Secretary HARRIMAN. Yes, Senator. I have not got it with m but I can readily supply it.

Senator WATKINS. You do not have in mind the approxima amount of that shipment?

Secretary HARRIMAN. They are, of course, certain types of pip going out of the country that we do not use here, but within th areas of what we use here, much of the supply, of course, goes out t American companies in other areas such as the Carribbean as well the Saudi Arabian field for the increase of production there. We have not got it here.

Senator WATKINS. You have not got it here, but you can give that.

Secretary HARRIMAN. We will give it to you.

Senator WATKINS. Does the program suggested by the Presiden and the administration contemplate a roll-back of prices when th power is granted, I mean the power to take care of the economi situation?

Secretary HARRIMAN. I can only speak for myself on that. I would be my hope that certain prices could be rolled back if they ar unbalanced, out of balance, and others maintained. One of th difficulties today is the unbalance of the prices.

Senator WATKINS. I understood you to say it was your hope What is the definite program with respect to that matter? Certainly there must be something in mind when the power is asked for?

Secretary HARRIMAN. Well, I am not in a position to predict the exact price levels that might result from it. As the President indi cated, the intensification of all voluntary effort is an importan aspect of the program.

It is a fact that we have not as much meat in this country as people want to buy; and, as Secretary Anderson indicated, there will be less meat next year than was in existence this year, still, of course, mort per capita than there was before the war.

However, if voluntary effort on the part of the people will result in reduced consumption, the price question will, to some degree, take care of itself.

The rationing and price control on such important items as meat is one of the matters which the program contemplates dealing with. But I certainly am not in a position to state what I think is a fair rice for meat in relation to other prices. The question of industrial prices, the question of what the labor cost is, is an important element. Senator WATKINS. I am not asking you to give the specific amount of any roll-back, but I want to know about the program that is conemplated now to roll back the price, for instance, of meat.

Secretary HARRIMAN. I would rather you ask Mr. Anderson that question, because that is under his purview.

Senator WATKINS. Well, I thought probably the over-all picture had been discussed, the whole program among the President's advisers. Secretary HARRIMAN. There are thousands of commodities that come into the price structure, and it is impossible to indicate, item by tem, what prices there might be.

It is certainly to be hoped that there can be a roll-back of price on certain of the higher-priced items that are unbalanced; and, above all, to stabilize the spiral which we are in the midst of.

Senator WATKINS. That is what I am trying to find out-to keep prices where they are now, stabilize them where they are now, or roll them back generally.

Secretary HARRIMAN. In order to stabilize them there must be some roll-back, because they are out of balance.

Senator WATKINS. For instance, which one?

Secretary HARRIMAN. You cannot stabilize out of balance. I can talk for the industrial areas. Lumber appears to be out of balance. Senator WATKINS. Would that be one that you think ought to be rolled back in price?

Secretary HARRIMAN. Lumber is a difficult item to handle. If we can get production and supply more in balance, increased production, and reduce it in the areas where there is a shortage, as far as practical, to reduce consumption, then you will get a readjustment in price.

Production, under all circumstances, is the way-the over-all wayto deal with inflationary pressures, but you cannot create production overnight.

Senator WATKINS. How about the price of steel? Is it contemplated to roll back the price of steel?

Secretary HARRIMAN. Certainly; it is contemplated to go at that area where the price is out of line. The gray market in steel is extending; it is not just small amount above the list price, but in certain products, and in certain areas, the gray market price is double, if not more than double, the list price of steel; and that would be the first effort on our part, if we had the powers, to eliminate, so far as practicable, that gray market.

Senator WATKINS. Get rid of it entirely.

Secretary HARRIMAN. Insofar as it is practicable. The black market is a difficult thing to eliminate, but to use these powers to reduce it to the maximum possible.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you not think you might turn the color from gray to black?

Secretary HARRIMAN. I would not think so, because you are dealing with producers who are anxious to eliminate it. Steel is not something that you can carry around in your pocket. It is something that moves in heavy volume and is easier to check.

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