Senator CHILES. What can you tell me about the national police force? Is this a new force being built up under the Attorney General? I knew they were building up a

Mr. BENSINGER. The new police enforcement group in Colombia will draw from elements of several services that seems to me has some benefits. Much as when DEA was formed we took elements from U.S. Customs Service, narcotics intelligence, as well as the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.

The new unit that will be employed in the Guajira will have presence from several investigative agencies within Colombia, the national police, the F-2, the drug investigative unit, Attorney General's investigative unit, and prosecutors.

That seems to me is something the Colombians feel will work to insure better cooperation. It is too early to tell. The results will have to speak for themselves.

Senator CHILES. A recent GAO report evaluating the Drug Enforcement Administration CENTAC program, concluded that an effective approach to investigating major traffickers needs to be expanded.

On page 21, it was recommended that DEA make greater use of the statutory forfeiture provisions and expand their program for use of financial analysis and information of narcotics investigations.

Mr. BENSINGER. I think that was a fair assessment. I think the overall utilization of the Federal Government across the board of the RICO and forfeiture provisions in its fight against crime has not been as fully exploited as it could be and should be.

Our response has been that we have with a number of CENTAC's, one of which GAO did not review, CENTAC 12 where some $25 million of assets have been frozen in Panama as well as some $3 million in the United States in associated locations. But we have embarked upon a major training in depth on financial forfeiture investigations that go across the board.

All of our top people, their supervisors, the special agents in charge in the field, the team leaders, the group supervisors, the agents, we will have reached over a thousand of our 1,500 domestic field personnel within the next 6 months. That alone is not going to guarantee success or forfeiture. We need experience of available prosecutors, grand juries, good cooperation on a national basis from the Internal Revenue Service; we will need an opportunity to develop these cases and to exchange the kind of information with other Federal agencies. I think on the financial forfeiture area, you should be aware we have 57 RICO major cases moving at the present time. Over 138 separate cases have been presented to the attorneys. We have had a dramatic increase in the utilization of these statutes within the last 6 to 8 months and I think the results will be significant.

We are looking at an average cash seizure: $40 million to $60 million in cash we are expected to pick up on an annual basis. The actual real estate assets, banks, the businesses, planes, vachts will have to follow because they have to go through civil and criminal action in our court system. That won't follow as expeditiously.

Senator CHILES. It seems as though this is something you really need to give a major amount of attention to. We recognize you cannot completely get all of the criminals, however we have to try to

get all those at the top that we can. More than that, we have to try to cripple their apparatus by taking their assets.

If there are additional laws that need to be passed, we definitely need to know if there is a weakness there. If it is a question of obtaining additional resources that are necessary to train and provide the skills, we need to know that. If there are other hangups and we know of one, we talked about it, the offshore bank situation on which you can't get any information, we need to know that.

What other problems are there in making this kind of concentrated attack on getting the assets of the enterprise, the illegal enterprise?

Mr. BENSINGER. Senator Chiles, we are committed to that effort and have initiated a number of major cases that will reflect just that statement. We have initiated some specialized training across the board. That will put our agents and agencies in the best position under the law.

We have committed that effort and advised the Attorney General that the State Department needs to put mutual assistance, particularly the treaties with the Bahamian Government, Cayman Islands, Bermuda, Nassau financial locations, at the top of the State Department's agenda in terms of bilateral relationship.

We are committed to that effort by encouraging you and your committee to properly question the impediments within the Tax Reform Act and the Right to Financial Privacy Act. We have committed that effort by discussing with the Director of FBI, head of Customs Service, as well as prosecutors nationally on how best we can coordinate our effort.

There are legislation amendments we think are needed. Irv Nathan spoke to those far more eloquently than I do.

Chairman NUNN. Mr. Bensinger, I am going to have to depart. Senator Chiles can complete

Senator CHILES. That is all I have.

Chairman NUNN. I appreciate very much your being here. We will hear from your people later on in the week.

The subcommittee will meet tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. We will have a preliminary meeting of the subcommittee itself for approximately 15 minutes. It is my anticipation that meeting will be closed because we will be discussing sensitive matters.

We will have an open meeting and then close it. Then we will have continuation of those hearings at approximately 10:15 tomorrow morning.

Thank you, Mr. Bensinger.

[Whereupon, at 2:50 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Tuesday, April 29, 1980.]

ORGANIZED CRIME AND USE OF VIOLENCE

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 1980

U.S. SENATE,

PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS

OF THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met at 9:55 a.m., pursuant to call, in room 5110, Dirksen Senate Office Building, under authority of Senate Resolution 361, dated March 5, 1980, Hon. Sam Nunn (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Members of the subcommittee present: Senator Sam Nunn, Democrat, of Georgia; Senator Lawton Chiles, Democrat, of Florida; Senator James R. Sasser, Democrat, of Tennessee; Senator Charles H. Percy, Republican, of Illinois; Senator Jacob K. Javits, Republican, of New York; and Senator William S. Cohen, Republican, of Maine. Members of the professional staff present: Marty Steinberg, chief counsel; La Vern Duffy, general counsel; W. P. Goodwin, Jr., staff director; Michael Levin, deputy chief counsel; Jack Key and William Colombell, investigators; Myra Crase, chief clerk; Mary Donohue, assistant chief clerk; Joseph G. Block, chief counsel to the minority; Howard Marks and Richard Shapiro, investigators to the minority; Lynn Lerish, executive assistant to the minority; Ira Shapiro, chief counsel, Governmental Efficiency and District of Columbia Subcommittee; Peter Levine, general counsel, Intergovernmental Relations Subcommittee; Janet Studley, counsel, Federal Spending Practices and Open Government Subcommittee; Alan Bennett, counsel to the minority, Governmental Affairs Committee; Peter Roman, investigator, Federal Spending Practice and Open Government Subcommittee: and Jack Pridgen, Office of Senator Chiles.

Chairman NUNN. Members of the subcommittee, we have a preliminary meeting here this morning to discuss two items: One is the question of immunity, which Senator Javits brought up at the last meeting and which we passed a resolution on. The other is the question of executive session and how we will try to handle those. Before we begin this meeting, I think we are officially in open meeting now until we close.

Senator PERCY. I so move we go into executive session.

Chairman NUNN. We have to discuss sensitive information that we discussed with the Justice Department. You make the motion pursuant to paragraph 7(b) of rule 25. Is there a second?

Senator JAVITS. Second.

Chairman NUNN. All those in favor signify by saying aye.

A chorus of ayes.]

Chairman NUNN. The meeting is officially closed. Do we have everybody here representing only staff? Could chief counsel and minority counsel verify everybody in the room is authorized to be here?

[Whereupon, at 9:56 a.m., the subcommittee proceeded into executive session, after which the open session was resumed at 10:20 a.m.] Senator CHILES [presiding]. We begin this morning's testimony, this being the second in our hearings on organized crime. We have as a panel of witnesses this morning members of the FBI who are in charge of the Organized Crime Section. During this testimony today, we will be dealing with various organized crime groups. Some of them have predominant ethnic backgrounds. Obviously, no one would or could imply that the vast majority of members of these ethnic groups have any connection with or share the characteristics of any organized crime group. We now know that organized crime does not confine itself to one ethnic group. We have and we see more and more organized crime groups every day that break themselves up by ethnic groups.

And so as our testimony goes forward today, we wanted to make that caveat initially. Mr. Percy, do you have any opening statement? Senator PERCY. No; I made mine yesterday, Mr. Chairman.

Senator CHILES. Part of our testimony today will be taken in closed session, pursuant to a motion made by the subcommittee. We will start off and go for a period of time in open session.

Gentlemen, will you stand and take the oath. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give before the subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. REVELL. I do.

Mr. NELSON. I do.

Mr. McWEENEY. I do.

TESTIMONY OF SEAN M. McWEENEY, SPECIAL AGENT, SECTION CHIEF, FBI HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C.; JAMES W. NELSON, SPECIAL AGENT, UNIT CHIEF, FBI HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C.; AND OLIVER B. REVELL, INSPECTOR, DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, IN CHARGE OF ORGANIZED CRIME AND WHITE COLLAR CRIME, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIVISION

Senator CHILES. Mr. Steinberg will begin the questioning.

Mr. STEINBERG. Would you please state your full names and give a brief background and history with the FBI?

Mr. REVELL. My name is Oliver B. Revell, Deputy Assistant Director, FBI. I am in charge of the organized crime, white-collar crime and undercover operations for the Bureau. I have served 16 years in the FBI, in Kansas City, Philadelphia, Washington headquarters, Tampa, Chicago, and in Oklahoma City as agent in charge. I have been associated with the investigation of organized crime since 1965.

Mr. McWEENEY. I am Sean McWeeney, Section Chief of Organized Crime. I have been in the FBI since 1965. I have worked in New Orleans, La., Oklahoma City, Boston division, Providence, R.I., New York, FBI headquarters, I was assistant special agent in charge in

Portland, Oreg. I have been assigned as head of the Organized Crime Section, FBI, since July 1979.

[At this point, Senator Sasser enters the hearing room.]

Mr. NELSON. Jim Nelson, I have been with the FBI 11 years, a year in Houston, 6 years in New York, and 4 years in Washington. I have direct responsibilities for organized crime investigations into labor racketeering, infiltration of business, and corruption involving police, judiciary, and prosecutive elements.

Mr. STEINBERG. Mr. McWeeney, does the FBI presently have a definition for organized crime?

Mr. McWEENEY. Mr. Steinberg, we have a working definition of what we define as an organized crime group. If I may read it:

Any group having some manner of formalized structure whose primary obJective is to obtain money through use of violence, corrupt public officials, graft and extortion and has a significant adverse impact on people in its locale or region or the country as a whole.

Mr. STEINBERG. Will you describe the FBI's programs aimed at combating organized crime?

Mr. McWEENEY. In the organized crime priority, which is coequal to white-collar crime and foreign counterintelligence, we have identified five programs: Labor racketeering, illegal infiltration of business, corruption, loan sharking and gambling combined, and what we call the "major impact" area-pornography, particularly child pornography, arson for profit, cigarette smuggling, and prostitution. We have other major responsibilities concerning gangland slayings, witness protection and maintenance, and the informant program for the FBI.

Mr. STEINBERG. Do all the FBI field offices participate in the organized crime program?

Mr. McWEENEY. All of our 59 FBI field offices have a mandate to have viable organized crime programs within their territories. However, we do have approximately 25 field offices, particularly those covering large cities in the Northeast, South, the Midwest, and California on the west coast that have serious organized crime problems and we monitor their activities accordingly.

Mr. STEINBERG. What investigative tools are used by the FBI to investigate organized crime?

Mr. McWEENEY. First and foremost I would say the selection and targeting of informants against the top echelon levels of organized crime; use of undercover agents and undercover businesses against serious organized crime problems; use of electronic surveillance, title III and consensual monitoring, the latter, body recorders, are particularly useful against loan sharking and corruption. We also utilize special agent accountants to analyze union and union records. We have developed and implemented the organized crime information. system, or OCIS, that has gone on line in Detroit, Mich., as Director Webster mentioned yesterday on April 21. We hope to have the Philadelphia and New York offices on line before the end of the fiscal year, September 30, 1980, and in 9 other large field offices in fiscal year 1981, and an additional 11 field offices in fiscal year 1982.

Mr. STEINBERG. Mr. Revell, in December of 1979, the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations held hearings, a portion of which