Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Chairman, I have no further documents or evidence to offer at this hearing.

As the chairman well knows, we still lack some information which we have sought from various sources and which has been denied to us, but the limitations of time make it appear that we must close the record without waiting or making further efforts to secure that lacking material.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

In view of the statement of counsel, and in view of my own personal knowledge of the activities of this committee and its efforts to procure information which has been denied to it by some of the departments of the Government, particularly the Post Office Department, we regret to have to close the matter at this point, but time limits our activities and hence the hearings on the matter are closed.

(Whereupon, at 10:30 a. m., Thursday, January 30, 1947, the hearing in the above matter was closed.)

APPENDIX A

Replies from bondholders, identified by witness Mansfield as having been segragated in an envelope in his files.

Your case No. 37536-F.

Mr. E. J. MANSFIELD,

H. C. CRITTENDEN
ATTORNEY AT LAW

311-12 Beymer Building

WINTER HAVEN, FLORIDA, March 27, 1943.

P. O. Inspector, Jacksonville, Florida.

DEAR SIR: Your inquiry addressed to Roger W. Babson by Touchton & Crittenden, attorneys, has been received by the writer, the former law firm of Touchton & Crittenden being now dissolved. The former firm of Touchton & Crittenden handled some legal business for Mr. Roger W. Babson in the past, but in none of these matters did this firm pay for Mr. Babson any money to Brown-Crummer Company, R. E. Crummer and Company, or the Crummer Company, of Wichita, Kansas, Chicago, Illinois, and Orlando, Florida. So far as I know, Mr. Babson has purchased no securities from any of the above-named companies. Neither, so far as I know, have any of the clients represented by the former firm of Touchton and Crittenden or by the writer, since the dissolution of that firm, bought any securities from any of the above-named companies.

So far as I know, most of the investors with the above-named companies, although buying many Florida securities, were nonresidents of the State of Florida, and at the present time I do not recall any investors with the abovenamed companies. Therefore, I am returning to you, herewith, your form letter, dated March 26, which you may if you desire, reddress to Mr. Roger W. Babson at Babson Park, Florida, or Babson Park, Mass. A letter addressed to him at either place will be received by him.

MY DEAR SIR OR MADAM: Will you please inform me whether your business transactions with Brown-Crummer Company, R. E. Crummer and Company, and the Crummer Company, of Wichita, Kansas, Chicago, Illinois, and Orlando, Florida, have been satisfactory. If not, full particulars in answer to the following questions will be greatly appreciated. If the space provided for answers is not sufficient, please furnish the additional information on the back of this form or on an additional sheet of paper, numbering your answers to correspond with the numbers of the questions. Fees only

(1) How much money, if any, did you pay this person or concern? in refunding Avon Park Bonds.

On what date? January, 43.

(2) How was it paid (money order, personal check, etc)? Deducted in settlement.

(3) What representations were made which induced you to invest your money? Did not buy any bonds of them, they were refunding the bonds. (4) Were such representations made by mail? Their rep. called and explained the refunding plan.

If not, in what manner?

(5) Have you written the concern (or person) in an effort to have the transaction adjusted? It has been settled satisfactory; no argument. If so, what was the result?__

(6) Please state how you came to engage in this transaction. If through an agent, kindly give his name and address. If through an advertisement in a newspaper, please furnish, if possible, the name of such newspaper, the date of issue, and the city in which it is published. Bonds were 7 yrs. in default, he explained the refunding plan to us, we agreed to join in the refunding.

(7) Will you please send me all letters, circulars, and advertisements received bearing on this transaction, together with the envelopes in which they were received, after having written your name on each piece for identification.

This letter should not be regarded as reflecting upon the character or reliability of the person or concern mentioned, and should be treated as confidential. An official envelope, which does not require the payment of postage, is enclosed for use in transmitting the information and papers desired. If the papers are too bulky to enclose in the envelope, you may wrap them in a package and Securely attach the envelope thereto.

A prompt reply will be appreciated. If possible, please furnish the names and addresses of other like investors.

Sincerely yours,

E. J. MANSFIELD, Post Office Inspector.

The bonds were originally bought from Guarantee Title & Trust Co. now Ritenour Inv. Co., Wichita, Kansas.

They never did pay the interest coupons. Were 7 yrs. behind on interest. The parties referred to here were refunding the bonds, the first interest payment is due April 1st, 43.

DEAR SIR: We have not had any dealing with this concern for many years. We bought some Florida municipal bonds back in 1930 and some prior to that year; also some Lynwood, California, bonds in 1930; most of these were bearing 6% or 7% semiannual interest, and as this was a much higher rate than our local municipal investments carried they looked attractive from that standpoint, but in nearly all cases we had to take a sacrifice not only on interest but sometimes in the municipality's refinancing a loss on principal investment. However we are not familiar with their methods of operation but when the bonds quit paying their interest we noticed that they had gone to handling the refinancing or readjustment of municipalities and it appeared to us especially in the Avon Park, Florida, attempt that the company's charges were rather excessive, most of which would be at the expense of the bondholder.

I believe that you can find a record of this in some court near Avon Park as Avon Park attempted to handle this indebtedness through the bankrupt law that was passed by our Federal Government. The exceptions that were filed by some of the bondholders no doubt would show this. However we do not know any of the details and could not give you any information, but presume the records there will show the story of both sides.

The have not attempted to sell us anything for many years and we do not know of any of their transactions that are not legitimate and could only say from our own experience we could not recommend investors to them. Of course

it was not their fault that the bonds were not paid as agreed, but naturally an investor feels that the investment house from which he bought bonds should try and help work out such investments in the interest of the bondholder instead of the municipality that gave the bonds. We have no records to show that they did this but it is only natural for a loser to be somewhat prejudiced, when they, the investment house, may have done all they could for the investor.

As far as their being anything irregular we do not have any envelopes or letters that we could send you and know so little about their operations that we could not say anything against them.

Yours truly,

SMITH BROTHERS, By M. M. SMITH.

THOMAS D. GREEN,

221 West 57th St., New York, April 9, 1943.

E. J. MANSFIELD,

P. O. Inspector,

Jacksonville, Fla.

DEAR SIR: Replying to your inquiry of March 27th, I am enclosing copy of my letter to the Corn Exchange Bank Trust Company together with their answer and I hope they will give you the information you desire regarding any transaction with the R. E. Crummer Co.

DEAR MR. NASH: I wonder if you would answer this for Mrs. Julia D. Green who is my wife.

She does not know what it is all about but knows of no irregularity on the part of these people.

Thanking you in advance,
Yours very truly,

TDG: r

(Signed) THOMAS D. GREEN.

CORN EXCHANGE BANK TRUST COMPANY, William & Beaver Sts., New York, April 7, 1943.

Re Julia D. Green Custody Account.

Mr. THOMAS D. GREEN,

221 West 57th Street, New York, N. Y.

DEAR MR. GREEN: This will acknowledge receipt of your letter of March 31, 1943, in which you enclosed communication received from the Post Office Department.

According to our records we received from Mrs. Green at the time that the custody account was opened Oct. 24, 1936, $1,000 town of Avon Park, Fla., improvement bond issue of 1925, No. 53, 6%, due May 1, 1939. The bond was forwarded to the First National Bank of Chicago and we received in exchange pursuant to plan of composition:

$1,000, city of Avon Park, Fla., ref. bond issue of 1942, series A, due April 1, 1972.

$250, receipt of the First National Bank of Chicago for unrefunded interest accruals to April 1, 1942, on $1,000 town of Avon Park, Fla., 6% improvement bond due May 1, 1939.

Payment of $36.15 was made to R. E. Crummer & Co. at the time of the exchange, as payment to them according to the deposit agreement for services in the refunding program as provided for in the plan of composition.

As we do not have all of the information asked for on the form, we are returning it herewith for completion by Mrs. Green.

Very truly yours,

(Signed) CHAS. WHEELOCK, Vice President.

STONE LUMBER COMPANY

GENERAL BUILDERS SUPPLIES, SASH, DOORS AND FINISH

Mr. E. J. MANSFIELD,

P. O. Inspector, Jacksonville, Fla.

BRISTOL, TENN.-VA., April 30, 1943.

DEAR SIR: Referring to your inquiry dated March 26, case No. 37536-F. Advise that our transactions with Brown-Crummer Company, R. E. Crummer & Co., and the Crummer Company, of Chicago, Ill., and Orlando, Fla., covers a refunding of Avon Park, Florida, bonds. The original bondholders' agreement was worked out by Mr. W. R. Stone, the owner of these bonds, some several years before his death. He died on July 15, 1940.

The writer handled this transaction to completion and would say that the refunding was not completed in accordance with the original terms of the proposed refunding. Also the expenses covering the charges made by R. E. Crummer & Company amounted to more than originally agreed upon. It may have been, however, there was some justification for this as during the process the city of Avon Park, Florida, filed bankruptcy proceedings under the Municipal Bankruptcy Act, and the case was handled through several of the courts of Florida and finally wound up before the Supreme Court. As far as the writer knows the transaction was not entirely satisfactory but cannot give you any specific charges as to misrepresentation for the reason the refunding program was not carried out and was blocked by the bankruptcy proceedings as referred to above.

If there is any further specific information that you may require in this connection, will endeavor to furnish same to best of our ability.

DEAR MR. MANSFIELD: In response to your inquiry of March 26th, this is to say that we have had business transactions with the above companies to an extent of several millions of dollars and that all such transactions have been satisfactory so far as we are concerned.

The above companies and their representatives have at all times faithfully carried out and completed every agreement arrived at between any of them and the American United Life Insurance Company.

While I have no way of knowing the circumstances which led to the making of your inquiry, our very large interests in the State of Florida have given me the opportunity of becoming acquainted with some of the political and business rivals of R. E. Crummer and Company and the Crummer Company of Orlando; I am somewhat acquainted with business deals wherein some Florida concerns and individuals, in competition with the Crummer Company, may have "come out on the small end of the horn."

Because of my satisfactory association with the Crummer organiaztions, I have been inclined to think that dissatisfaction on the part of other Florida dealers or individuals has been due primarily to the astuteness of the Crummer people and the lack thereof in some others.

Perhaps I have gone beyond the requirements of your questionnaire, but I thought you might be interested in the foregoing.

Very truly yours,

DAWB: jb

D. A. W. Bangs,
D. A. W. BANGS,