W

HILE these explanations were taking place regarding the share, which a dispute about the nomination of a chairman of a Finance Committee had had in dissolving a ministry, the committee itself had been named on the 15th of February. The motion was made by Mr. Peel. He prefaced it by a general review of the financial condition, and prospects of the country, and of the objects which it was proposed to gain by the appointment of the committee. He would attempt, he said, to consider the state of the finances, on precisely the same principles which an individual would apply to his private concerns. He would first determine what were the incumbrances to which we were liable; secondly, the nett amount of the income for some years past; thirdly, the nett amount of expenditure during the same period; and fourthly, what reasonable prospects there might exist as to the future amount either of our expenses or of our income.

On the first point, it would, he said, be quite sufficient for his purpose, if, taking the amount of the general debt, funded and unfunded, at a recent period, he should compare it with the amount of debt in the first year after the late peace, looking likewise at an interme

diate period between that year and the present. He would take, therefore, the years 1815, 1822, and 1827, premising that he would call the year 1815-but which ended on 5th Jan. 1816-the year 1816, as being a more compendious way of describing it, and so of the other years which he might name. Now, the total capital of the unredeemed funded debt in the year ending on the 5th January, 1816, was 816,310,000l. In 1822, the total amount of the unredeemed debt was 796,530,000l. Last year, the amount or capital of the unredeemed debt was 777,476,000l., omitting the hundreds, and stating it in round numbers.

The next matter to be considered was the amount of charge. The amount of charge for debt to which the country was annually liable, included the amount of interest payable to the public creditor, on account of the funded debt, and the cost of management. This charge amounted,

In January 1815 to £. 28,278,000

....

1823 to .... 1827 to

....

24,419,000 25,500,000

But this statement alone did not comprise a fair view of the aggregate amount of the public debt, and the charge upon it. In the first place, some of the annuities payable

in the public funds were terminable in point of fact; but at so distant a period as scarcely to warrant the introduction of any calculations founded on their expiration. In the next place, a portion of this charge was permanent, and a portion temporary only. To ascertain the total amount of charge occasioned to the country by reason of the unredeemed funded debt, at the first period-the year after the peace-the intermediate period 1822-and in the last year, he proposed to add to the charge of the unredeemed debt, the amount of the charge in the shape of annuities; in order to show the total amount payable by the country, in consequence of the unredeemed debt and annuities taken together. The annual amount of charge on the funded debt and annuities was,

The total decrease of the capital of the unredeemed funded debt, since the year 1815 had been 38,835,000l.: that is to say, such was the amount of stock, which, since 1816, had been purchased with the sums appropriated for the redemption of the funded debt. The unfunded debt, last year, on a similar comparison, was lessened by the sum of 9,770,000l.: so that the total diminution of the funded and unfunded debt, since the year 1815,amounted to 48,608,000l. The total decrease of the annual charge of the funded and unfunded debt and annuities, since 1815, amounted to 4,424,000l.: The total charge of the unredeemed debt and annuities in 1815 amounted to 30,488,000l., of which sum the total amount in annuities was 1,924,000l.: the total charge in 1822 amounted to 28,596,000l., of which sum the total amount in annuities was 1,892,000l. and the total charge in 1827 was 28,381,000l., of which sum the total amount in annuities was 2,602,000l.

This being the amount of the incumbrances, it was necessary to look next at the revenue and expenditure; and he intended, in the mean time, to keep out of account what was called the "dead weight;" though he would afterwards give a statement including it. He would state, then, the gross amount of the expenditure of the country, under all the ordinary branches of out-lay-the interest of the national debt, the services of the army, navy, and ordnance, miscellaneous services, and civil list,including the charges arising upon both the funded and unfunded [F]

debt, but exclusive of certain expenses which he should particularize as he went along, for each of the last five years, ending on the 5th of January, 1828. In the year 1825, the total expenditure of the country, exclusive of the advance of 5,000,000l. paid to the commissioners for liquidating the national debt, but including the interest upon Exchequer-bills, was 47,692,000l. In the year 1824, it was 49,527,000l. In the year 1825, it was 48,061,000l. In the year 1826, 49,585,000l. And in the last year, 1827, 49,219,000l. Now, supposing that he deducted from this general amount of expenditure, the sums payable on account of the debt, the difference would show what the expenses of the country were, independent of what might be called the fixed incumbrances-in short, what were the charges for the public service. The nett expenditure, then, of the country, exclusive of the charges of the national debt, of the naval and military pensions, and of the "advances on account of public works," (which he left out, because such advances could not be considered as part of the permanent service), for the year 1823, had been 18,477,000l.; for the year 1824, 20,461,000l. ; for 1825, 20,000,000l.; for 1826, 21,509,000l. ; and for 1827, 21,529,000l. Taking, again, the total expenditure and income for these five years, the account stood thus.-The total income, including all sources of revenue, and the repayment of advances made for public works, for the five years last past, was 261,000,000l. The item of re-payments of advances made upon public works in England and Ireland, had reference to sums advanced, from time to time, for the

promotion of works in both countries, security being taken for the interest and re-payment at convenient periods; and this sum of 261,000,000l. included within it such sums as had been repaid during the five years. On the other hand, the total fexpenditure during the five years, omitting, as in the statement of the income, the naval and military pensions, and including all advances made for public works, and deducting the repayments, was 249,000,0007. Deducting 249,000,000l. from 261,000,000l. the total surplus revenue, applicable to the liquidation of the national debt, during that period of five years, appeared to have been 12,000,000l. But, under the existing arrangement, what was called the dead-weight added to the income on one side, and to the expenditure on the other. Including it on both sides. of the account, the result for the last five years would stand thus : Income 284,149,000l., expenditure 263,005,000l.; making a total surplus, in round numbers of 21,000,0007.

The total of

The next point to be attended to was, the amount paid by the commissioners of the Sinking-fund, as directed to be annually appropriated by act of parliament for the last five years. these payments was 29,414,000l. ; exhibiting an excess over the surplus income of 8,360,000l. The difference had been made up, partly by money raised for that purpose, and partly by reduction of the balances in the Exchequer on the last day of one year compared with those balances on the last day of another. Supposing, for instance, the amount of balances to have been five millions in the year 1823, and the amount now to be only

two millions, a larger sum by three millions than the actual surplus of the income over expenditure might have, during the intervening period, been applied to the reduc tion of the debt.

To state the probable future revenue would more properly be long, Mr. Peel said, to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he should come to open the budget; but, to assist in furnishing a correct view of our prospects in that respect, it might not be amiss to refer to the ordinary expenditure and income of the last two years. The total ordinary revenue

For 1826, was .... £.49,625,000
For 1827
49,581,000

exclusive of naval and military pensions, casual revenue, and the repayment of advances on public works. The income for the year 1827 being therefore 49,581,000l., and the expenditure, 49,487,000l.; the excess of income was 94,000l. The expenditure for the two years was

As to the expenditure of the present year, the estimates were not yet all made up in a form fit to be presented to the House; but he might say, without binding himself down to complete accuracy, that they would be about 17,575,000l. The Finance Committee of 1817 had estimated the sums necessary for the same services at 17,350,000l. The estimates of the present year were thus greater than those of 1817 by 227,000l.; but they were less than those of 1825 by 6,140l.; less than those of 1826 by 365,8431.; and less than those of 1827 by 1,168,260l.

Having taken this general view of the financial state of the country,

Mr. Peel said, that his colleagues and himself would listen most willingly to any suggestions or recommendations from the committee, the appointment of which he was now to move. In regard to the constitution of the committee, nothing could be more painful than to have the nomination of such a body, from the necessary duty which it imposed of excluding a number of persons whose assistance would be in the highest degree valuable. To make a selection, however, was necessary; and he had endeavoured, without regard to party, to choose those persons whose talents were the most generally admitted, and whose attention had been longest directed to the consideration of

financial subjects. Of the powers to be given to the committee, it was not so easy to speak; in fact, in words, would hardly be practicto define those powers very closely able.

could be no doubt that the execuOn the one hand there tive government of the country must remain chiefly responsible for the amount of the establishments proposed to be kept up; but, on the other hand, to say that the committee should be precluded from all consideration of the fitness of those establishments, would be almost absurd. In truth, the course adopted in the year 1817 was the right one. The committee then appointed had been allowed to call for every information which could throw light upon the existing public establishments; as, for instance, the amount of establishments kept up by the country in former years. But it had not been forgotten at the same time, that the government of the country must necessarily be in possession of many circumstances, important in the consideration of the extent

of public establishments; and that it might even be in possession of facts, such as could not be disclosed, and for which the committee must merely give credit-upon which the decision of such a question would entirely depend. For example, to take the case of the secret article in the recent treaty of London, which bound this country to maintain a certain naval force in the Mediterranean. None but the government of the country could be aware of the existence of that article, and of the pledge which it contained. Government, if a Finance Committee had been sitting, could not have communicated the information. And yet, without it, it would have been impossible for such a committee to come to any competent opinion as to the extent of naval armaments necessary to be appointed or maintained. The proper course, therefore, was to give the committee every means of inquiry, as to the expediency of maintaining the publice stablishments.

There was one subject, however, which he intended especially to refer to the committee, and upon which he would for a moment request the attention of the House; it was a subject of very high importance, and he looked for infinite benefit from the consideration of it:-he alluded to the question of the simplification of the public accounts. If the committee should be able to propose any plan for the attainment of that object, they would confer a most valuable and lasting obligation upon the state. For himself, he saw no reason why, in this point, as well as others, we should not avail ourselves of the example of foreign nations of France, for instance, the public accounts of which were peculiarly clear; or of the United

States of America, where the work was performed with equal plainness and facility. He then moved, "That a select committee be appointed, to inquire into the state of the public income and expenditure of the united kingdom, and to consider and report to the House, what further regulations and checks it may be proper, in their opinion, to adopt, for establishing an effectual control upon all charges incurred in the receipt, custody, and application, of the public money; and what further measures can be adopted for reducing any part of the public expenditure without detriment to the public service."

The motion passed without opposition, except from Mr. Hume, who objected to the appointing of only one committee, whereas, if any good was to be done, and to be done in good time, there ought to be many. He had taken the trouble, he said, to prepare a stateIment of the different branches of inquiry connected with the public revenue and expenditure of the country, and he must say, that, if the committee were to direct its attention to all, it would be impossible for it to terminate its labours in even so short a time as two or three years. What he therefore would suggest to the right hon. gentleman would be, the appointment of ten or eleven Finance Committees. He was quite aware that this was a novel thing to propose, and he was prepared to expect objections-there were so few in the House disposed to take any trouble or labour on themselves. But he must contend, that, if ministers were serious in proposing a consideration of all the points which ought to be considered, it would be quite impossible that