Senator MONRONEY. And that is the only place? Mr. THOMAS. We installed it initially at Atlanta for test and we also have it partially at Indianapolis for test. Our first full-fledged installation will be at Jacksonville. Senator MONRONEY. Since you have been familiar with the survey that was taken by the flight service stations and the proposed closings of them, I wish you could bring us up to date on that and any attitude you have toward the closing of these flight service stations. Mr. THOMAS. All right, Mr. Chairman. As I believe you stated, we are running some tests with so-called flight service facilities which are reduced service, and in addition, what we call an airport information desk, an aid location which provides for weather communications at airports which do not now have service in anticipation of reducing our present 335 stations to something like 154. But to do so, we would greatly increase the service at other locations which do not have them now in the daytime by providing for either teletype or telephone communication and cooperative weather observing. So that the total number of weather observations would go from presently about 750 to 800 to, we hope, around 1,100 or 1,200, so there would be more service during the daytime. Our problem is that most of the general aviation flying, nearly 90 percent of it, occurs during the daylight hours-we can afford to service well there-and very little of it at the night hours. So we are trying to spread our resources so we can give more service at more locations during the day hours and less during the night hours. This has not been received well. Our tests are just now concluding; I do not know the result. We are going to before the House committee, with Chairman Harris, with the results before we proceed further. There is no money in our 1966 budget to make any change from the present situation. So we shall carry on as we are until this thing is thoroughly explored, with a hope that whatever program we come out with, we will give more weather and more information where it is needed for less funds than we are spending now. go It costs up to $5 to contact to get some weather at night at the present time. Senator MONRONEY. But there are funds in the current FAA budget that will continue the present flight service stations through another year; is that correct? Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; the present flight service stations will be continued until such time as we thrash this out with Congress. Senator MONRONEY. Senator Cannon? Senator CANNON. On this experimental facility that you are talking about for your vertical separation, what has been your success so far with it? Mr. THOMAS. Very well. We have some aircraft equipped. Several of the airlines have aircraft equipped. In fact, the newer jets are coming out so equipped. Our people are very enthusiastic about it. Measurements we have been running indicate very good correspondence with what the policy is and whether it actually reports within 100 or 200 feet. We are still taking measurements on this. Senator CANNON. Is this going to require the installation of expensive equipment in the civilian-type aircraft to be useful in the system? Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; to be usable in the system, it will require a radar transponder. This will be a mandatory requirement, however, only in the positive control areas in the future. We do not see any mandatory requirement for most of the general aviation for some years. Quite a few of the business fleet are purchasing it now because it does give quite an additional advantage to them. They have their identity and altitude transmitted immediately. But it does require additional equipment in the aircraft. Senator CANNON. This is something that has been needed for a long time and I shall certainly be very happy to see it come in as rapidly as possible. But I am sure you are aware of the concern that every time a regulation comes out requiring something to be on these small aircraft, a relatively inexpensive-type aircraft, these gadgets that must go on it run up into quite a sizable amount of money. Mr. THOMAS. That is correct, Senator. As you know, the airlines do carry the radar beacon as does the military. Most of the business fleet, also. So we are hoping to eventually get it down cheaper. But right at the present time, it is around $2,500 installed. Senator CANNON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Senator MONRONEY. That is not automated with the altimeter, is it? Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; this would be-well, the airlines may be more. Senator MONRONEY. In other words, they do not have to set it. It is geared into the altimeter to reflect the correct position? Mr. THOMAS. It transmits continuously a preset identity and reads the altitude information off the altimeter so the pilot does not touch it. Senator MONRONEY. We hear a lot about blind landing capabilities. There have been several tests made lately regarding lowering the present service ceilings. Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir. Senator MONRONEY. Could you inform the committee about that? Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; for all practical purposes, our limits now are listed as 200-foot ceiling and a half-mile visibility. We are now going into a program of what we call category 2 landings, which will be in the same terms for 100 feet and quarter-mile visibility, actually 1,200 feet visibility, with runway visibility along the runway starting out at 1,600 feet. Several airlines are now engaged in the training program and buying the equipment to do that. We are trying to improve some of our instrument landing facilities, which will assure the type of operation. Our next step will be sometime in the future. half that, down to 600-foot runway visibility, and it will be quite some time in the future before we get down to really completely blind landings. Senator MONRONEY. But you are working on that type of program, constantly trying to improve the electronic capability of handling these airplanes? Mr. THOMAS. Oh, yes, we have demonstrated how to make quite a number of them. But we are talking about the tests now. Senator CANNON. What is the status of your study on Washington National with respect to lifting the limits on jet operation? Mr. THOMAS. Sir, a contract has just been signed. My recollection is it will be around the first of the year before we will have a recommendation from the contractor and it will be in the middle of the winter or early spring before we will come to a conclusion on it. This has to do with the questions as to whether or not we admit jets, what categories of jets, and the improvements that would be necessary to do so. Senator CANNON. When you say the improvement, you mean whether or not you would have to rearrange your facilities over there, lengthen your runways, and so forth? Mr. THOMAS. For example, one could visualize that if you put in a parallel runway for general aviation, shorten the present one and perhaps lengthen runway 36 to 8,000 or 8,500 feet, it might be necessary that this would require rearrangement of terminal facilities, because we are, as you know, out of terminal facilities there now. That would be an outside one. Another consideration would be to do nothing and maybe just let small jets in or not let them in at all. These are matters that are being considered over there. Senator CANNON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. MONRONEY. Do you have anything to do with the Dulles Airport operation as Deputy Administrator? Mr. THOMAS. I will as Deputy Administrator. I do not now, sir. Senator CANNON. Is there any hope of bringing that traffic up? Is it growing now? Mr. THOMAS. It is growing. It is not growing as fast as we would like. It seems to get swallowed out there. If you compare it with other locations, I believe it is about the 40th busiest. It does not seem so because it is so large. But traffic is gradually increasing out there. Senator CANNON. So far as you are concerned, you favor joint use of our larger airports with civilian aircraft, private line aircraft, where they are properly equipped to come into these traffic patterns, do you not? Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir; this is not only our policy, but as you know, sir, it is part of the law. Senator CANNON. But you know of no one advocating taking that right away? Mr. THOMAS. No, sir, the only advocacy we have is the use of the $7 million in funds for the provision of feeder airports to relieve congestion, but not to keep them away. Senator MONRONEY. I see. We thank you very much, Mr. Thomas. We have a rollcall coming rather shortly, so the committee will stand in recess subject to the call of the Chair. The hearings are closed. Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m., the hearing was concluded. BOYD, DAY, HARLLEE, MCKEE, MURPHY, AND THOMAS NOMINATIONS MONDAY, JULY 12, 1965 U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, Washington, D.C. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:30 a.m., in room 5110, New Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Warren G. Magnuson (chairman of the committee) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The next nomination is for Chairman of the Maritime Commission, and we have Mr. Harllee's reappointment for a term expiring June 30, 1970. As the Chair pointed out, due to the passage of the law that came out of this committee, the bill making these appointments 5 years, we had to make a break here, so that Admiral Harllee is appointed for 5 years, and Mr. Day appointed for 4 years, to establish the continuity of the 5-year term. We have your biographical sketch here, Admiral, which we will put in the record in full. (The biographical sketch follows:) BIOGRAPHY OF JOHN HARLLEE, REAR ADMIRAL, U.S. NAVY (RETIRED) CHAIRMAN Admiral Harllee was designated Chairman of the Federal Maritime Commission August 26, 1963. He was appointed by President Kennedy to be a member of the Federal Maritime Board and took office August 4, 1961, after confirmation by the Senate. His present term as a member of the Federal Maritime Commission expires June 30, 1965. From October 16, 1961, to January 2, 1963, Admiral Harllee served as the first Vice Chairman of the New Commission under the rotation system adopted by the Commission for that office. He was born in Admiral Harllee voluntarily retired from the Navy in 1959. Washington, D.C., on January 2, 1914, the son of Mrs. Ella F. late Brig. Gen. William C. Harllee, U.S. Marine Corps (retired). He was graduated from Western High School, Washington, D.C., in 1930 and from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1934. On December 7, 1941, Admiral Harllee was stationed at Pearl Harbor and participated in its defense. During World War II he commanded Torpedo Motor Boat Squadron 12. Admiral Harllee and his command were awarded the Presidential Unit Citation for outstanding performance in combat in the Southwest Pacific during 6 months in 1943 and 1944. He also served a year as chief staff officer of the PT organization in the Southwest Pacific, which included 10,000 officers and men, 200 PT boats, 11 supporting ships, and 7 bases. Admiral Harllee was awarded the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit (with Combat V) during World War II. Staff counsel assigned to this hearing: William C. Foster. 52-323-65- 6 |