Mr. SAYLOR. In matters of making and determining policy, of the Veterans' Administration, in the light of legislation passed by Congress, is the Chairman of the Board of Veterans Appeals a member of that group?

Mr. MORSE. No, sir; the policy board which was established by the present Administrator-I believe that is correct, Al; established before my time, Mr. Chairman-consists of the Administrator, the Deputy, the heads of each of the three line departments, the Chief Medical Director, the Chief Benefits Director, the Chief Insurance Director, plus the Comptroller of the agency and the General Counsel. That is the policy board.

Mr. SAYLOR. All right. On your chart you have shown that there are 11 board sections, composed of 37 members. Is that correct? Mr. MORSE. Yes, sir.

Mr. SAYLOR. And the usual situation is that three members make up each board section?

Mr. MORSE. Yes, sir.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now the first chart on there is medical advisers. How many medical advisers are there to the Board of Veterans Appeal?

Mr. MORSE. There are many medical members of the Board, but medical advisers as such, I believe we just have one at the moment. Mr. STANCIL. In the medical advisory bloc, sir, those are specialists in particular areas. There have never been more than three. There is now only one. But as for medical advisers in the sense that I believe the Congressman is using the word, there are medical consultants in the consultant service who work with the sections of the Board. Mr. MORSE. 14 of those; and one medical adviser.

Mr. SAYLOR. That is what I am getting to. There is only one medical adviser?

Mr. MORSE. In this particular bloc here; yes, sir.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, on the right hand side of the chart, it says "Legal advisers." How many legal advisers are there?

Mr. MORSE. Two.

Mr. STANCIL. In that bloc. There are also legal consultants and attorney advisers.

Mr. SAYLOR. Let us only take that bloc. We are going to go down the rest of the chart in a minute.

Now, then, down below, you have consultant service. How many men are there in the consultant service?

Mr. STANCIL. A total of 84 as of today, sir; 14 of which are doctors, and 70 of which are attorneys.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, on the other side, management service: How many members are there in the management service section?

Mr. STANCIL. There are approximately 141 administrative and clerical employees most of whom are in the management service, who make up the typists and the transcribing pool, the clerical personnel, for the docketing of cases, the mail and records, the correspondence clerks, and people of that category. Those are the service troops.

Mr. SAYLOR. So that as far as this committee is concerned, those 141 people have absolutely nothing to do with the reviewing of the evidence, with the determining of the medical problems involved, or the determination of the Board. They are merely the housekeeping troops that carry out the functions of transcribing the decisions or

writing up the advice which the consultant service gives, and the final decisions of the Board. Is that correct?

Mr. MORSE. Essentially; yes, sir.

Mr. SAYLOR. Then we have, if my figures are correct, 1 medical adviser, 2 legal advisers, 84 members of the consultant service, and 37 Board members, or a total of 124 people in the Veterans' Administration who handle these appeals.

Mr. MORSE. Two more; the Chairman and the Vice Chairman, to make 126.

Mr. SAYLOR. But the Chairman and the Vice Chairman do not participate in the decisions themselves, unless there is an appeal from the decision of the Board to the Chairman for review?

Mr. MORSE. Yes, sir. And the Chairman will participate, sir, where there is a dissenting opinion. If there is a dissenting opinion from the section itself, the Chairman then has a vote.

Mr. SAYLOR. All right. Now, in view of the fact that last year, in fiscal 1959, according to your figures, you had 46,696 cases: What is the average number of cases handled by each one of the 84 consultants?

Mr. MORSE. What was the total figure you offered, Congressman Savlor?

Mr. SAYLOR. 46,696, which is the figure which I take right off of the top, here.

Mr. MORSE. May I direct this to Mr. Stancil?

Mr. SAYLOR. Yes.

Mr. STANCIL. The 46,696 figure that you are using, sir, is an action or an issue figure; not the number of cases. The total number of cases before the Board during fiscal year 1959 was 36,302.

Did I understand you asked the time devoted to each case?

Mr. SAYLOR. I didn't ask the time devoted to each case. First I want to know how many cases were referred to each one of these 84 consultants.

Mr. STANCIL. Well, I can't do the arithmetic in my head. All of the cases were referred to the consultant force. The 36,000 cases.

As Mr. Morse said, the consultants perform what is roughly analoggous to a law-clerk action to the associate members. The associate members had on an average of 13.7 cases per day for each section of the Board.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, what you are coming down to telling us, then, is that these 84 people in the Consultant Service must handle, review all of the evidence, look over all of the files, which, according to the Administrator's reply to H.R. 947, are so voluminous that it takes a day or more to find the pertinent facts upon which to base the decision-I want to know how you can get anybody that can handle these cases and make a conscientious review of them.

In other words, the thing has come down, according to your own. figures here, that you just do not spend more than 30 minutes, assuming you do not have any coffee breaks, assume that you do not have any time off for sickness, and assuming that you have to work 8 hours every day, for 50 weeks a year.

Now even in private industry, that is an impossibility. In Government, it would be phenomenal to find anyone who would do half of that. I want to know how you can come up here and tell us that

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these 84 men that you have got down there are able to spend more than 30 minutes on any case.

Mr. MORSE. Congressman Saylor and Mr. Chairman, first let me correct one thing. We have coffee breaks.

Mr. SAYLOR. I know that. I have been down there. I have seen them.

Mr. MORSE. But to do a little bit of simple arithmetic, just applying the figures that you have used, there are 84 consultants, with our 36,000 cases, and that is an annual load of about 430 cases per year per consultant, which is something around 2 cases a day per consultant.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, let me ask you; because I am coming down there, and I am going to get some of these 84, and I am going to walk in, and indiscriminately I am going to go to their office and ask them for their last week's files. So you had better be a little careful of this arithmetic, Mr. Morse. I am coming down there and find out how these fellows work.

Go right ahead.

Mr. MORSE. Yes. Well, using that figure, on a pure arithmetical basis, each consultant would be responsible for approximately 430 cases a year. Now, the 30-minute figure which the Congressman cited I believe refers to the time that each associate member takes in consideration of a case, which would be aggregating the time of the three members, 90 minutes per case.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, what percentage, can you tell us, of the run of these cases are allowed-of the cases which are considered?

Mr. MORSE. About 10 percent, Congressman Saylor. We do not figure the batting average, however, until after the season closes. Mr. SAYLOR. I realize that. But it is rather unusual that your records over the past year show that you have had a pretty consistent batting average. We would not do very well, except for the Sena

tors.

Now, how many cases each year are remanded?

Mr. MORSE. About 10 to 11 percent, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, of those cases that are remanded, how many return to the Board for their consideration?

Mr. MORSE. I do not have that figure available. Those go back to the Department of Veterans Benefits.

Mr. STRATTON. The question was: How many of the cases that are remanded, that come back, are actually returned to the Board of Veterans Appeals?

Mr. SAYLOR. Yes. Of the cases sent back to the district office, how many of them again come back to the Board?

Mr. STRATTON. The rate then would depend on the rate of allowance of the regional office.

Mr. SAYLOR. That is a simple matter. That is a foregone conclusion. I am trying to find out what that is.

Mr. STRATTON. I do not have the figure of the number of cases that are returned to the Board of Veterans Appeals.

Mr. STRATTON. I do not have the figures of the number of cases that are remanded are allowed?

Mr. STRATTON. Allowed by the local office?

Mr. SAYLOR. Allowed by the local office.

Mr. STRATTON. I think that is around 20 percent.

Mr. STANCIL. We do not have an exact statistical figure on that, but the procedure is that if the field office does allow the benefit appealed for, the case is automatically returned to the Board.

Mr. STRATTON. This would mean about 80 percent are actually returned to the Board of Veterans Appeals.

Mr. SAYLOR. All right. Now, then, of the cases that are denied, how many cases do you have where there is a request that they be reconsidered?

Mr. MORSE. A total of 428 in fiscal year 1959, that were reconsidered, Congressman Saylor.

Mr. SAYLOR. That is about 1 percent?

Mr. MORSE. A little more than 1 percent.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now can you tell me how many of the cases that are reconsidered are allowed?"

Mr. MORSE. About 10 percent.

Mr. SAYLOR. Again we come back to that arithmetical figure of 10. Mr. MORSE. In addition, there would be about 15 percent remanded cases, and that gets off the 12 percent we were talking about. I am pleased to see the variety.

Mr. SAYLOR. All right. Now, how many personal hearings are attended in Washington by the veterans themselves?

Mr. MORSE. Mr. Stancil, can you answer that, please?

Mr. STANCIL. 1,058 formal hearings in fiscal year 1959.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, are they formal hearings at which either the veteran himself or a representative from one of the veterans' organizations appeared in his behalf?

Mr. STANCIL. Those would be hearings at which someone appeared, either the claimant or someone in his behalf, predominantly the service organizations, sometimes attorneys, frequently Members of Congress or their administrative assistants.

Mr. SAYLOR. This I am asking as a matter of personal information, because my record down there has been so far below 10 percent. I am wondering how many times Members of Congress or Members of the Senate appear down there on cases.

Mr. STANCIL. The total was 339 occasions in 1958.

Mr. SAYLOR. How many of those were allowed?

Mr. STANCIL. I do not have that.

Mr. MORSE. I am sure we do a little better there, Congressman.

Mr. SAYLOR. This is a matter of personal pride; because my batting average in this case goes to zero.

Mr. MORSE. Just as an aside, Congressman Saylor, I formerly was administrative assistant to a Member of the Senate, Leverett Saltonstall, of Massachusetts, and I used to get into this once in a while, and I batted for about 80 percent.

Mr. SAYLOR. I better talk to you on the side in this and find out what your method was.

Mr. MORSE. I batted four out of five.

Mr. SAYLOR. He was batting so well that they brought him over there. They could not have that situation.

Now, what percentage of these 36,000 cases are pension cases? Does anyone know?

Mr. STANCIL. The last fiscal year approximated 11 to 12 percent of pension cases. We expect that will increase.

Mr. SAYLOR. Now, can you tell me the percentage of the pension cases that were allowed, as compared with the total cases that were allowed?

Mr. STANCIL. I do not have that, sir. I would be glad to get it and submit it to you immediately after the hearing.

Mr. SAYLOR. All right. Mr. Patterson just handed me a record, here, that shows that in the figures that you submitted in fiscal 1959, there were 5,333 decisions on disability pensions, and there were 211 that were allowed and 4,663 denied, and 459 remanded. correct?

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Analysis of decisions on compensation and pension cases disposed of by Board of Veterans Appeals, fiscal year 1959

Mr. SAYLOR. One of the reasons that I asked for a monthly report for a fiscal year was to find out whether or not there was any pattern followed; whether or not there was the same batting average or whether or not around Christmas time you got a little more liberal.

Have you ever found yourself having a little more Christian charity at Christmas time than at other times? Or is that Board so hardboiled that Christmas does not mean anything to them?

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