University of King's College. Professor Scott. The Rev. Hercules Scott, A.M., called in and examined. You are Professor of Moral Philosophy in this College?—I am. 17 September 1827. the Questions sent by the Commissioners ?—Yes. Have you any additional suggestions, either with respect to your own class, or with respect to the state of the College generally, that you wish to bring to the attention of the Commissioners?-I think that the subjects which are allotted to me are too numerous for the time that I have to teach. I am the only person that instructs the students at all in logical and moral subjects; of course, therefore, it is expected, that, during the year they are with me, I should instruct them in Logic, in Moral and Political Philosophy, and in Rhetoric and Belles Lettres. I therefore think, that if there were a separate Logic and Rhetoric class, it would be a great improvement in my department. From the want of a separate Logic Class, many young men, who have attended this University for two or three years, are obliged to attend the Logic class in Edinburgh, before they can be admitted as apprentices to writers to the signet. Will you state, in detail, the method you follow in teaching your class?-The hours of attendance in the Logic and Moral Philosophy class are the same as in the other regular classes, to wit, from half-past eight in the morning to nine, from eleven to twelve, and from three to four in the afternoon. The half-hour in the morning is uniformly employed in viva voce examinations on the lecture of the preceding day, and in hearing the answers to the questions which had been dictated on the more important subjects of which it treated. Every lecture delivered in the class is illustrated by questions; and from this practice, two very beneficial effects result. They secure the attention of the students during the lecture-hour, and act as a strong stimulus to exertion during the evening. The answers must be all written; this is peremptorily insisted upon, and indeed is now seldom attempted to be evaded. They are read publicly in the class by the author; and as two or three individuals are often called upon to read answers to the same questions, a degree of emulation is excited, which is found to be of the most beneficial consequence. This exercise likewise accustoms the students to express their thoughts in writing. The hour between eleven and twelve is regularly employed in lecturing. From three to four, the examinations which had been left unfinished in the morning are resumed, and questions for the next morning prescribed. A considerable part of this hour is likewise occupied in the practice of composition. For this purpose, certain subjects of essay are prescribed by the Professor publicly in the class, and a time fixed, before which the essays must be left by the authors at the Professor's house. After being examined in private by the Professor, and the inaccuracies, whether of thought or composition, carefully marked, they are returned to the authors, by whom they are read publicly in the class; their inaccuracies are pointed out, and commented on, and an opinion as to their merits or defects publicly expressed. The subjects prescribed for essay are always more or less connected with the subjects treated of in the lectures, except at the beginning of the course, when some general subject, such as the advantages resulting from the study of history, from the study of classical literature, &c. &c. is prescribed. It may be mentioned, that the first series of essays is generally read by the Professor, without mentioning the names of the authors. This is done, to save, in as far as possible, the feelings of individuals, for it often happens that young men of talents pass through the inferior classes with considerable credit, though almost completely ignorant of English composition. Errors in grammar, and even in orthography, are still of frequent occurrence in the beginning of the course, though much less frequent than they were six years ago; young men come to the Logic and Moral Philosophy class in a much better state of preparation, since the practice of composition was introduced as a part of the regular duty of the class. Had there been no compositions prescribed previously, in the class of Moral Philosophy?—Yes, there had, for some years. I do not know that the practice of illustrating the lectures by questions had been adopted before. As in all the other classes in this University, a catalogue is read over at the beginning of every meeting, and the absentees are marked. The catalogue is submitted to the Professor every Monday morning, and the absentees are interrogated. There are very few, if any, instances of non-attendance, except in the case of bad health, or of leave asked and granted by the Professor. The Professor has it in his power to fine both for absence and bad behaviour; but these are of such rare occurrence, that for the last six years the fines in the Moral Philosophy class have not amounted to 2s. 6d. How many exercises does every young man give in during the course?-For the last four years, I have had four essays every session from every student in the class. I had more the first year that I taught, but the students did not pay the same attention in writing them as they do now. Are any of the essays written in the class, in the presence of the Professor?-No; they are all written at home. Do you use satisfactory means to ascertain that they are written by themselves?— There are no means quite satisfactory, which I can use to ascertain that point. I have their own declaration to that effect. From perusing their first essays, I know the progress which they have made at the beginning of the course; and by comparing them with those which they make afterwards, I can in general ascertain pretty accurately whether they are written by themselves. How frequently is every young man examined during the session?-Every young man in my class is examined once in three days. Is there any regular order of examination ?—No, they are examined quite promiscuously. University of King's College. Professor Scott. Will you have the goodness to state the order and the nature of the subjects of which the course treats?-I am elected properly to Moral Philosophy; but as the students are unacquainted with Logic, I consider it my duty to devote a part of my course to that 17 September 1827. subject. How much of your course is devoted to Logic?-It is not separate from Moral Philosophy. I have, in general, two or three introductory lectures upon the nature of the subjects to which their attention is to be directed during the session. I then employ some time upon the History of Philosophy, bringing it down to the time of Lord Bacon. I next shortly illustrate the Philosophy of Bacon, and shew its applicability to the Science of Mind. After that, I state the difficulties which are to be encountered in the prosecution of Moral Science. I then begin with the Intellectual Powers, and go over them at considerable length; from them I proceed to the Active and Moral Powers. Next follow the doctrines of Natural Theology, and the Immortality of the Soul. I then direct the attention of the students to their duties to their Creator, to the members of society, and to themselves, and conclude with a short view of Jurisprudence. During the last months, in the afternoons, I generally deliver ten or twelve lectures upon Political Economy; and, about the beginning of December, I begin a short course upon Rhetoric and Belles Lettres. Is that at a separate hour from those you have mentioned?-In general, from three to four in the afternoon. Does not the reading the exercises of the students interfere considerably with your own lecturing ?-I read them all privately at first. Do they read them in the class?-They read them in the afternoon. Does not that occupy a considerable part of the time?-It does certainly. Supposing there should be a separate class for Logic, what distribution of the classes would you propose for the curriculum, in that case ?-I think the Logic class ought to be taught in the third year, if the present system of education is continued here; that is to say, if we have no second Mathematical class. Supposing there were to be a second Mathematical class?-It might perhaps be taught during the second year, and Moral Philosophy might then be introduced in the third year, which would make our course of study uniform with that pursued in the other Universities. Natural Philosophy would then occupy the last year not that I am particularly attached to that arrangement; without any change in the distribution of the classes, I think that a Logic class the third year, as a preparation for the Moral Philosophy class the last year, would be of great consequence, because the students are quite unacquainted with those subjects when they come to me. Do you find that you are able to exhaust those different subjects in the way you would wish to do?-Very far from it. Do you conceive that you would have ample occupation in Moral Philosophy ?-Moral and Political Philosophy, I think, would occupy a Professor fully. Is it your proposal that there should be a separate Professor of Logic?-I certainly think that that would be a beneficial arrangement, if it could be carried into effect; but I think, that if I were authorised to teach a separate Logic class in a separate year, that might obviate the difficulty in some degree. How many hours a day would you propose the Logic class to be taught?—I do not think a Professor of Logic could do justice to the subject under two hours a day. In that case, if it was imposed upon you, that would give you five hours a day?—Yes; but I am not proposing it with reference to myself; it would be a labour that I could not undertake, with the examination of essays in my own house. Have you observed that the students have made considerable progress in the facility of composition?-Very great. Do you dictate the questions connected with the course?—Yes; and I insist upon the answers all being made out in writing at first, there was a little difficulty in getting it done, but that is now overcome. Do you combine it with viva voce examination ?—I do. What is your opinion about the propriety or advantage of lengthening the session ?—I have not the least doubt, as far as I am concerned as Professor, that it would be a very great advantage to me; it would enable me to treat of many subjects more fully than I do at present; but as to the students, I question how far it would be advisable. Many of our students are extremely poor; there is never a session passes, in which great difficulty is not felt by many in getting through the session as it is at present. I may add, there is seldom a session in which I have not applications for assistance. The young men are with you the year before they enter the Divinity Hall, are they not? They are. Looking to the state of preparation in which the young men leave you, do you think it would be desirable to add another year to the preliminary education?-I have not the least doubt that it would secure better-educated students of Divinity: but perhaps, if a period were fixed before which they would not be admitted to the University, that might answer the purpose. Many of the young men come at a very early period to College. The Commissioners understand, that no composition is required in any of the classes in University of King's College. Professor Scott. the College, except your own?—No composition is required in any other class, as far as I know. Are there any prizes given for essays in your class, or are they for general proficiency? For essays and general proficiency. For proficiency in the essays generally, and not for any particular essays?—There are no prizes given for particular essays: they are given for general proficiency and good 17 September 1827. conduct. The Huttonian prize, which is given in my class, is bestowed on the person found best qualified on the whole course. What is your opinion as to the best mode of distributing the prizes?-There are considerable difficulties in the distribution of prizes: but I am induced to think, that the mode which is followed at present is perhaps the best that we could adopt. During the six years that I have been a member of this University I have never seen an instance of an undeserving person getting a prize; but I have certainly seen instances of young men left out in the distribution, who, I thought, were fully as well qualified as some of those that got them; and had I had the giving of the prizes myself, I perhaps might have changed the order of those who got them. Have you reason to think that there is much canvassing among the students for the prizes?—I am inclined to think that in some cases canvassing goes on. Supposing prizes were bestowed for individual essays, to be decided by the students, subject to confirmation by the Professor, might not that be an improvement, instead of giving them in so vague a manner as for general proficiency?-I question whether it would be right to put the power of judging of the essays into the hands of the students. Do not they, in fact, judge upon the essays when they give the prizes?—That is one of the elements; but they judge, not merely upon the essays, but upon the answers at the examination. Do you consider that the students are at all times qualified to determine upon the relative excellencies of the essays?-Certainly not; I have seen favourites in the class, who, I thought, were not entitled to stand so high as they did. But still you think that system better than the Professor himself judging ?—I certainly prefer it. Do you think it better?-I do not think it better in the abstract; I prefer it because it relieves the Professor from a great deal of disagreeable work. If he were to give the prizes it would be impossible that he could give satisfaction to all concerned. The system is only new here-it has not been followed above six years; perhaps when it is of a little longer standing, some of the objections may be removed. Connected as your subject is, in some degree, with Theology, and as the students have to present your certificate to the Professor of Theology, do you mark in your certificate the different degrees of proficiency of the young men ?—I do. Supposing it happened that a young man made no progress at all, would you certify that? No, I would merely give him a certificate of attendance. Is the principle upon which your certificates are given known at the other Divinity Halls in Scotland, so that they may be aware when a certificate is presented, mentioning attendance alone, that it is meant to mark that he has no merit?-I do not know that it is so understood; most of the Professors of Divinity are personal acquaintances of my own, and I should suppose, when they see a certificate of that kind, that they must suspect that the individual is not very highly qualified. Do you consider that you are authorised, in the event of the improper conduct of a student, to proceed to expel him, without consulting the Senatus Academicus?-Certainly not. I may put him out of my class during that meeting; but, if I did so, I would conceive myself bound to give intimation to the Senatus, and to get a decision from them. Have you reason to be satisfied with the regularity of the attendance of your students? -Very great. I have power to fine; but I think my fines altogether, for irregularity and non-attendance, have not amounted to half-a-crown during the last six years. Do you consider so many classes meeting at the same hour, upon the whole, an advantage?—I think it questionable whether it is an advantage or not; for those who intend fully to prosecute their education it is an advantage certainly, because their attention is not distracted by attending a variety of classes; but it completely deprives many young men of the opportunity of attending classes which they would wish to attend, Those who are only to be at College two or three years might wish to attend all the classes; but that they have not in their power. Do you conceive that the present system is best adapted for promoting classical literature? No; I think that our system is perhaps more deficient in that respect than in any other. I am of opinion that our first Humanity class ought to meet an hour every day; that the second Humanity class ought likewise to meet an hour every day, and that the same attendance should be required of the second Greek class. That our classical department is very deficient at present, appears to me from the students who pass through my class. Though it is not the custom of the Professors of Moral Philosophy to read Greek and Latin, in the essays of my students I have had many proofs of gross deficiency both in Latin and Greek. What course would you propose for them to attend the first two years; would you, in the first year, confine them exclusively to the Greek and Latin classes?-From the state of acquirement in which they come up at present, I think that is absolutely necessary. The second year I would insist upon their attending the second Greek and the second Humanity class an hour each day, along with Mathematics. At present, it is required that every person who goes for a degree shall have attended the Humanity and the Greek classes for four years. year. University of King's College. Professor Scott. Could you advantageously read a little Greek with the students, in authors connected in some degree with your course?-I certainly would have difficulty in doing so, if it is expected that I am to instruct them in the same multiplicity of subjects that I do at present; 17 September 1827. but if that were reduced, I think I could read both Greek and Latin with advantage. According to the curriculum, your class and the second Greek and the second Humanity classes, are the only classes they are attending in the fourth year?—Yes. Do you approve of the present mode of examination for a degree in Arts ?--I do not; and three years ago, I made a motion that the mode of examination for a degree should be modified; at least, that a Committee should be appointed to consider if any or what improvements could be made in the mode of conferring degrees. There was a Committee named, of which I was appointed Convener. The Committee met frequently; but several of my colleagues, who have been longer in the University than myself, and who had more experience, disapproved of any change, and the Committee did nothing. Did they make a report to the Senatus Academicus ?—I made a report; but that report was not adopted. Was it a verbal or written report?-It was a verbal report. Do you recollect the nature of it?-As there was a great unwillingness to make a change, the change that I proposed was the slightest possible one, in the hope that it would be adopted. The improvement which I suggested was, that a young man, after having attended the regular course of study at College, might have it in his power to come forward to us, and say, I claim a degree of Master of Arts: the consequence of which would have been, that he would have been subjected to a regular and strict examination in all the departments of study. And I proposed, that, if he gained it after such an examination, some change should be made in the body of the diploma, to shew that he had got it cum honoribus. It was farther proposed, that the present examination should be public, or at least open to all the Professors. In addition to that modification, are there any improvements which you would suggest, with regard to the mode of conferring degrees?-I think, that every person who goes for a degree in this University ought to be subjected to a strict examination at the end of every session of College. A strict examination at the end of every ssesion would, in my opinion, be better than subjecting the candidate to a strict examination at the end of his course; because, if he failed one year from inattention, it would be in the power of the Professor to mention to him that he had done so, and that unless he retrieved the ground he had lost he could not get a degree. If that examination was gone through at the end of every session, it would strengthen the hands of the Professors very much, and encourage a spirit of emulation. The degree of Master of Arts ought not to be conferred without a much stricter examination, although I must say I never was present at the examination as at present conducted. İs any report made to the faculty of Arts by the examining Professor ?—Yes. Is there anything to prevent your being present at that examination if you wished it ?—— It has never been the custom to attend: it is what I would not choose to do, as it has never been attended by any person, except the examining Professor. Is the Principal present?-No, he is not. Would you propose that those examinations should be in the presence of the whole Professors, or an open meeting for the students ?-We have public examinations at present in the presence of all the Professors and the students: but I think they might be modified; and it ought to be known, that those examinations were to stand for the degree of Master of Arts. And you conceive that the consequence of that would be a much stricter examination than now takes place?—I think it would, and that the change would strengthen the hands of the Professors not a little. The young men come up to us at such an early period, that many of them pass through the first and the second year with very little attention: they make very little progress; but if they knew that the consequence of that would be, that they would be deprived of the Master's degree, it would have a very beneficial effect. If a young man was found deficient one year, it ought to be made known to him that he could not get a degree, without submitting to a second examination upon the subject upon which he was found deficient. Are there any other improvements which you would suggest, for the interest of the University? I think the degree of Master of Arts, if it were given upon that system of examination, ought to be held necessary to obtaining any higher degree. I think, that perhaps it would be well for us that students were not admitted to the University till they had attained the age of 13 or 14 years. Do many students now come up to the University, under 14?-A good number: and it is becoming more and more the practice every year. We do not feel that inconvenience so much as some of the other Colleges. Would you say, that they come up better prepared than they did formerly, when you was a student at the University?-They come up perhaps better prepared in one respect--that is to say, from the value of the bursaries here, they are drilled into writing Latin; but I do not think they are so well prepared in other respects. In general knowledge they are much more deficient, because their sole attention has been directed to writing Latin: their object is to gain a bursary, and, if they gain that, they think everything is done. Until we University of King's College. Professor Scott. adopted the system of examining the Bursars at the commencement of every session, our Bursars were the idlest and most careless students we had. Then you do not think that the multiplication of those small bursaries has been of great use to the University ?-It has been of use in one respect; they have afforded the means of education to many who could not otherwise have got it at all. Have you, in any instances, sent back young men, who had obtained bursaries, upon their 17 September 1827. examination in the second and third years?-Last session, I think there was one who did not receive his bursary: he attended College, but he did not receive it. We have had several instances of young men absenting themselves-giving up attending College rather than submit to our examination. You have been induced to adopt that new regulation, in consequence of the inattention and idleness of the Bursars?—Yes; and as far as I am able to judge, it has had a most beneficial effect. Do a considerable portion of the students come to this University with a view to get a bursary?-A very considerable number of them do. What is your opinion of the probable advantages of a union of the two Colleges?— As an individual, I have always been favourable to that idea; but I must say, that I am a good deal staggered in that opinion, when I see that many older men than myself, and who have had much more experience, are against it. As an individual, I think that many advantages might result to the system of education from the union of the two Colleges. Do you think that an amalgamation of the two Colleges would be attended with advantage? I do not think that any advantage would result from the mere union of the Universities; but from one University and one College, or the amalgamation of the two, I think the advantage would be great. Will you be so good as to state the grounds of that opinion?-I think the system of education here, as compared with the system of education in the South, is considerably deficient. I myself am obliged to teach all the subjects I have mentioned, which I consider to be too numerous. The Professor of Humanity here lectures upon Chemistry; and if we have any Natural History taught, it is taught by him. In short, I think we might have more Professorships, and the system might be improved much. Do you see any serious obstacle to an amalgamation of the two Colleges?-The only serious obstacle I have ever heard mentioned is, that the classes would be so numerous, that we could not carry on the system of teaching by examination. Now there is a difficulty there certainly; but still our classes would not be so numerous as they are in the South; and I think, if you were to restrict the age of entrants to 41, that would circumscribe the numbers considerably. At present, a number of parents send up their children to us, from not knowing what to do with them; they come to us, well aware that they are not to be educated for any of the professions, and they are idle and inattentive. Now I think, if such were cut off from attending us, that we would not suffer much inconvenience from the size, of the classes. It appears, that the first Humanity and the first Greek classes are nearly double those of the Natural and Moral Philosophy; is not that a confirmation of the opinion you have expressed?-Last session, the first Greek class amounted to 82 or 83. Now, I suppose that, judging from what has happened in other years, the Mathematical class will not be above 60; and by the time they come to the Natural Philosophy class, they will have dwindled down to 50-a circumstance which rather confirms my opinion, that, if the age were restricted to 14, a number of those that come merely for one or two years would not come to College at all. If there is any difficulty in managing the classes, it is generally in the inferior classes; and at public prayer, I may say, from my own experience, when I happen to preside there, if there is any noise or disturbance, it is always among the younger students. If there were a union effected, we might have a pretty complete system, and a complete University in point of classes. We might have a Principal, two Professors of Divinity, a Professor of Church History, and a Professor of Oriental Languages. We have a class of Law founded here. In Medicine we have two Professors, one here and one at Marischal College; there is likewise a Professor of Chemistry at Marischal College. Then, Materia Medica and Midwifery and Botany would be wanting. We might have a Professor of Moral and Political Philosophy, and a Professor of Logic and Rhetoric, as we have at present two Professors of Moral Philosophy. We might have a Natural Philosophy class, a Mathematical class, a Natural History class, a Greek class, and a Humanity class. The consequence of that would be, that three salaries in time would become vacant, and those might be applied to found other classes that would be wanted.-(See Letter below.) So that the emoluments of the two Colleges would make out a complete system?—Yes. By that scheme, there are 16 classes provided for; and for the three classes of Materia Medica, Midwifery, and Botany, which are quite unprovided for, provision might be made by allocating to them the whole or part of the salaries of the Professorships of Greek, Mathematics, and Natural Philosophy, which would in the course of time become unoccupied. Have you had opportunities of judging of the comparative conduct of the students attending the College in the New Town, and those attending the College in the Old Town ?—Not of late. I was educated myself at the College in the New Town. From your experience as a student at the Marischal College, and as a Professor in this College, are you able to form any opinion of the comparative conduct of the students, with regard to the advantages or disadvantages of the greater town, in which the Marischal College is situated?—I can have no hesitation in saying, that I think the smaller town far more advantageous to the students in every respect. As the seat of a University, there is no comparison between the two, in my opinion. The students here are much more under the Pro |
